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Ep. 156 - Be Birth Positive with Lauren Seidman

Today I'm excited to bring you a conversation with Lauren Seidman, a down-to-earth, relatable, and super knowledgeable childbirth educator who runs online classes and also shares her knowledge at her Instagram account @birth_positive

This is a long overdue topic for us here! The more knowledgeable we are, the more we can advocate for ourselves and feel confident in the process.

Looking forward to hearing your feedback!

Resources from this week's episode:


<00:00:00> Kayla Levin: Okay, Lauren Sideman thank you for coming onto the, How to Glow podcast.

<00:00:05> Kayla Levin: Thanks so much for having me. As we were saying before we got started, this is a very overdue topic for this. So I'm going to let you actually explain why this is overdue or at least at the very least what is it that you do?

<00:00:21> Lauren Seidman: Okay. Sure. So I am a childbirth educator, which means that I teach expectant parents about birth, the birth process and the postpartum period.

<00:00:36> Lauren Seidman: And to answer your question, why this is overdue but it's always a good time. Right? Right. But overdue is that this, God willing having a baby is a, is an experience that many married couples that you work with or married women that you work with anticipate having at some point in their relationship.

<00:00:59> Kayla Levin: Yep.

<00:00:59> Lauren Seidman: And so I'm glad we're doing this because I think it will be helpful for your audience. So thanks for having me here.

<00:01:07> Kayla Levin: Absolutely. No, thank you so much for coming on. And it's, I, and I think of like different jobs that I would never do. Childbirth educator is like pretty, so I'm like, so fascinated in how you got into this.

<00:01:20> Kayla Levin: And at what point you were like, oh, I think I wanna do that for people. What draws you to it? Just like a little bit of your background story, mm-hmm

<00:01:28> Lauren Seidman: Sure. So my background professionally has absolutely nothing to do with what I do now. I went to college actually initially thinking that I wanted to be a lawyer, and then changed my mind at some point in my four years of college and ended up, getting a job at a consulting firm after I graduated.

<00:01:49> Lauren Seidman: So I was doing human resources consulting for about six years. And there were definitely things that I liked about that experience. and at a certain point, that type of career was not working anymore for me on a personal level. So during those six years, I got married and I, we had our first baby and then I had my second and once my second child, my, my older daughter was one.

<00:02:23> we just felt like this it's too demanding of a lifestyle to have two little kids and it wasn't working for our family and I missed my kids too much. And I was like, I'm just going to stop. and find something that's more fulfilling for me on like a personal level and something that has more flexibility.

<00:02:42> Lauren Seidman: So I guess this role came about for a lot of different reasons, like lifestyle wise and interest wise through those pregnancies and births of my first and second kids. I also started to become slightly obsessed with everything birth related and I had this like tiny thought in the back of my head, okay, maybe I'll just, leave my corporate job and...

<00:03:06> Lauren Seidman: casually pursue this birth interest on the side. and so what ended up happening was I left my corporate job. I was home with my kids,proudly wearing the title of stay at home mom for a year, basically. And I just decided to pursue this passion more seriously. So I ended up getting certified through Lamaze.

<00:03:32> Lauren Seidman: And Lamaze international and many people might be familiar with the term Lamaze because people know like the breathing technique that they used to teach when my mom was pregnant with me and like right late eighties, nineties. it's not what we teach anymore. Cause I'll talk about that if you want.

<00:03:48> Lauren Seidman: But I ended up just wanting to be more legitimate about it, about this passion around birth. And I was finding that one through my own exploration and my own pregnancies, how much information there really was out there and how little I really knew even like before I gave birth, like I found out a lot of stuff after I gave birth.

<00:04:05> Lauren Seidman: So I was like, wow, how great would it be if people could actually have access to this information beforehand, that was number one. And number two, as I just started meeting other new moms and my friends also, thank God started having babies, sharing birth stories. I started listening to people's experiences and also had.

<00:04:23> Lauren Seidman: This feeling of, maybe, there's no perfect recipe to having the perfect birth that we want. we can't control the process, but maybe having access to information and being more educated is one ingredient to having a more empowered and positive experience. Absolutely. No matter how it pans out.

<00:04:42> Lauren Seidman: And so that's how I landed in this seed. I, I need my business birth positive because of that. And I've been teaching now for the past three and a half years. Wow. Yeah. So that's where at

<00:04:59> Kayla Levin: That's so great. I feel like, I did one education class childbirth education class when I was expecting May 1st, which probably a lot of people did.

<00:05:06> Yeah. But I. The person was maybe this shouldn't have been my hangout, but I felt like the person was so not relatable to me. No, that it was like, I like thinking back at it, I'm like, oh my gosh, I would've loved to have been in Lauren's class. Like that just seems so much more oh, she gets it.

<00:05:23> Kayla Levin: And she like, I don't know,it's such a combination of, you're saying lots of information, which can make you more empowered and help you make decisions. But it's also there's so much of an emotional piece. And especially as a first time, mom, now I know that we, as we, we mentioned before we started, but like for sure, a lot of the listeners here have already experienced giving birth.

<00:05:42> And, you know, possibly some people will just be like, look, been there, done that. Like I'm not, you know, or, or I'm just not in this parsha at all right now. And this is not the episode for me. And that's fine. But for, even for people who have given birth, understanding your story, better, understanding what happened better, maybe setting yourself up for a different way.

<00:06:02> Kayla Levin: And I think creating, like what, like your company is called creating more positivity around your birth experience. if there's just one takeaway from this conversation that can shift it for you. A lot of times people do come to me with questions and they've, they're having baby number five or six, like it doesn't stop just because you've experienced it one time with that said that first class.

<00:06:24> Kayla Levin: And I imagine myself sitting in that class, a million years ago, like getting ready for my first baby. like just completely not knowing what you're going into. Do you know what I mean? So you're understanding on an intellectual level, but it's a little tricky to like, make it feel real right.

<00:06:41> Lauren Seidman: It is, that's definitely a challenge of it being your first.

<00:06:45> Kayla Levin: Yeah. Yeah. Okay. So in terms of making it more positive, like obviously we're not gonna go through every single bit of your material, right? Like you, you have a lot, first of all, your Instagram account has lots and lots of information.

<00:07:01> so those of you who are in on Instagram, what's the handle for them to follow you

<00:07:05> Lauren Seidman: @birth_positive.

<00:07:07> Kayla Levin: Okay, great. so that is definitely a resource, but if we were to just say what would be some of the top things that would separate a positive birth experience that are in our control?

<00:07:18> Kayla Levin: Cause as you said so much of it's not in our control, but there, there is a lot that is so of the things that are in our control, what can make it a more positive experience?

<00:07:27> Lauren Seidman: Yeah's a great question. And I also just wanna say be, before I get into specifics, the name also birth positive, I was also inspired by the term, like body positivity.

<00:07:37> in that way, there's all different types of bodies out there, body shapes, body size, all of that. And can we be, can we have this positive attitude? No, even though everything is different. And so part of my approach with my birth classes is that when I think about birth positive, it's not just there's, I really believe this.

<00:08:00> Lauren Seidman: And I think that this comes across in my content and in my classes, especially is that there's really no one right way to do this. it's really about figuring out what's what a positive birth is gonna mean for you. And that's gonna mean very different things for different people.

<00:08:18> Kayla Levin: Wow. So I think that's a really important message.

<00:08:20> Kayla Levin: And I'm so glad you said that also, especially for the people who have given birth. I remember very recently reading a. Like a sort of an essay written by somebody. It was her birthday, it was her birth story. and she ended up having a C-section I think it might have even been a schedule C-section and she was so positive about the experience.

<00:08:38> like the way she, they, this is why we made that decision and this is what the C-section was like, and here's how beautiful and magical it was. And here's when I met my child and, for me, I had so much like messaging. Of God forbid, or the more intervention, the words, and it's always supposed to look like this.

<00:08:56> Kayla Levin: Like I definitely did not have what you're describing. I had, this is the ideal birth and everything else is very much like a, okay. You have to deal with medication. Okay. Fine. But, and so I think I'm so glad that you're saying that. Cause I think that, to me, that was such a shift to, to read that.

<00:09:10> Lauren Seidman: And I like, it sat with me for a couple days of like how amazing for this woman. Totally. And there's also been there, there have also, been studies and research showing that the way that someone feels about their birth experience has less to do with actually the outcome, like the way their baby came into the world, meaning a cesarean birth or vaginal birth - has less to do with that.

<00:09:33> Lauren Seidman: Then it does how they were made to feel during the experience. So this yeah, this emotional piece is really huge and it really can't be understated. How you're treated and how you feel during the experience like this woman that you're giving the example of. She felt really empowered around the decision and understood why that was the right way for her baby to be born right.

<00:09:55> Lauren Seidman: Such a different experience when you have that.

<00:09:57> Kayla Levin: And that shows how important it's for you. Because as they're learning about birth, they're not hearing a messaging of this is the only way to do it. They're hearing totally. Totally. These are all positive. And then what, it'll be easier for them to.

<00:10:10> Kayla Levin: To have positive thoughts about their birth experience.

<00:10:13> Lauren Seidman: Definitely. Yeah. And it, it's not, and you could probably speak more to this because it's around like the mental work piece, but it's, it doesn't mean that it's so easy. Like every, I think most people do have a vision of how they want their birth to go.

<00:10:25> Lauren Seidman: And if it doesn't go that way, it can be really disappointing and you can feel upset about it. And that's also okay. that's all, it's also not just at least you have a healthy baby, but your birth experience doesn't matter. I don't believe that either like your birth experience does matter and it could go a lot of different ways and it might take you time and work and talking about it and support to come to peace with your birth, so it's very, there's a lot of different factors going in, but,So, yeah, that's your initial question around?

<00:10:54> Lauren Seidman: What can someone do to actually set themselves up for a more positive experience or empowered experience, whatever you wanna call it? I really number one and number two, things that people need to consider are where they're giving birth. And number two, who they've chosen to hire as their care provider, because the place that you give birth.

<00:11:19> Lauren Seidman: And that means anything that means in a hospital, in a birth center or a home, but even amongst hospitals, at least in the us, 99% of people are birthing in a hospital. There's even a lot of differentiation amongst hospitals. so doing a little, doing, enough research into where you're giving birth and picking the option that you think is gonna best support you is really important.

<00:11:42> Lauren Seidman: Just as an example, in New York state, you can look up. Hospitals and look up their statistics around Cesaris. And so some of the hospitals close to me have Cesarian rates in like the high 30 percentage, which is pretty high. and then there are other hospitals that will have rates in like the twenties So that statistic alone gives you a sense of how that hospital operates. And I don't have to take my word for it. There's a, there is, um, obstetrician by the name of Dr. Neil Shah anyone wants to come up. He's a Harvard pro medical school professor, and he talks about how there could be two hospitals across the street from each other, like one, he gives an example like in California, I forget which city, but one hospital has a, C-section rate of 70%.

<00:12:36> Lauren Seidman: And one hospital has a rate of 7% and like your risk of having a C-section has less to do with you than it does where you're actually going to have your baby . So I think people just need to appreciate that. Yes, everyone's body has its own nuances and can react to the birth process differently.

<00:12:57> Lauren Seidman: And your baby might need different things. Yes. But where you're giving birth is a huge influence in how your birth unfolds . So that's around the place of birth. And then in terms of your care provider, meaning an OB or a midwife, they also have their different styles of practice and they're entitled to practice how they think is safest and how they see fit.

<00:13:20> Lauren Seidman: But it's important to find someone who you feel like is aligned with you because not everyone, not every care provider practices, the same way, some tend to be a little more quote, unquote medical, some tend to be quote unquote, a little more low intervention. So if you want a low intervention birth, and you've chosen to work with a provider who tends to be a little more medicalized.

<00:13:40> Kayla Levin: It might cause some friction, especially as you get towards the ends of your pregnancy or the way your care is, or if you prefer more medicalized approach and you're with someone who's like more like hands off and she, that might make you feel stressed Or pushing you to not take the epidural and like you want the epidural, That's not the birth that you're looking for.

<00:13:56> Lauren Seidman: Exactly. So just getting someone who's the right fit for you was also really important.

<00:14:00> Kayla Levin: Okay. I wanna circle back to that, but I just wanted him to tell you this story that I met at one point, I met somebody who was getting ready to go to med school. And I said, I'm so interested in what type of medicine you wanna practice?

<00:14:11> Lauren Seidman: And she said, I wanna go into obstetrics. And I said, oh, why? And she said, I just love surgery. I was like, oh, okay. You wouldn't be the doctor I would choose It's wonderful that there are doctors who know how to do that surgery. But if that's like your motivation for me anyway, I had some thoughts about that, but also that, then you know, that person wanna be the right fit for you.

<00:14:34> Lauren Seidman: And it's also gonna be, country dependent, like in the us, most people are using OBS . Some people are using midwives. there are midwives also can attend birth at home. They could attend birth at birth center. They can also attend birth in a hospital. Just wanna clarify that for anyone who's listening.

<00:14:51> There's not just one way to have that member free type of care. there are collaborative partnerships where midwives will. Work with people that are low risk and the OBS will take someone who's more high risk. That model is more common in other countries, which actually tends to have better outcomes.

<00:15:07> Kayla Levin: So I had that actually in Atlanta, I had a midwife practice and then they just had me see the OB, like once it got to, cuz I was going way over my due date. the OB was there to support the midwife practice. But yeah, these are really good points. Okay. So one thing I think we, I would love to touch on, cause I think this is, I know for me, and I've heard this from other people too, especially first time moms, when you walk into a doctor's office, you're not really given usually the feeling that you are there to as a consult, oh hi, I'm checking you out.

<00:15:43> Kayla Levin: I'm deciding if you're the doctor for me, and I'm gonna go see a bunch of different doctors, and then I'm gonna come to a right conclusion about who's the right doctor. My feeling was like, as soon as you're in, it's almost like you get whisked along into their whole system. Totally. And then, and I'm so glad that you're saying it's not about you're right.

<00:16:00> Kayla Levin: And they're wrong, or they're right. And you're wrong. It's about finding that match because when you get further along, and then now you're in a situation where you have to say, wait, I'm pushing for a birth. That is not the birth that you like. That is how your protocol runs for some people that is not, I know for me, like authority, figures, doctors go into the authority figures category.

<00:16:20> this makes me extremely uncomfortable. So if I can spare myself that situation by making sure I'm lined up with the right doctor from the get go, yeah. Then I'm in such a better situation. So how, what can people do? How can people make sure they've got that right fit when that doesn't really seem to be the way that the model works.

<00:16:36> Lauren Seidman: Right. Well, the other thing that I think makes it hard and I guess, I mentioned one and two, like your place of birth, your care provider, but really number three is education like learning about the birth process and figuring out what your preferences are. And I think what complicates this process that you're mentioning in terms of choosing a provider is that a lot of times people don't necessarily start learning about birth until let's say they're later in their pregnancy when it's, and they don't realize necessarily that they might be with the wrong fit provider.

<00:17:04> Lauren Seidman: And then it's too late to switch. Then you really listen. I wanna, I will be officially on the air of saying this it's never technically too late to switch. You can always switch and. It gets more, it gets harder to switch from like a financial standpoint now, or even to find a provider who will take you that late in your pregnancy.

<00:17:23> So it's both you're never stuck and you can be in a situation where you feel very stuck. yeah.

<00:17:30> Kayla Levin: Even if that one piece doesn't feel right, you might have developed a rapport or a comfort level with this person. Yeah. Where now, like now you're starting. So it's not like it's gonna all of a sudden this person's the wicked witch of the west and you don't want her delivering her baby.

<00:17:41> Kayla Levin: It's wait, she's been so good to me. She's taken some care of me. Now what,

<00:17:46> Lauren Seidman: yeah, it's really complicated. but in terms of what you're asking around interviewing providers and finding someone who's the best fit for you, you're right. I honestly don't have a great answer to that.

<00:17:58> I think don't, I don't, I'm not really sure. I think the best thing you can do is you can call up and just be open and transparent and say, I'm looking for a provider I'm new to the area, or this is my first pregnancy. And I'm looking for a new OB, is it a possible to schedule of, A consult with one of your providers and see if they're open to doing that.

<00:18:17> that, that's what I would do. I, the, I can't see why the answer to that would be no. You have to schedule an official appointment

<00:18:24> Kayla Levin: and maybe that's not your person also. I would just add to that, you, for sure. If you live in a community and starting to ask arounds about who did people have totally.

<00:18:32> Kayla Levin: And what did they feel was the vibe and what did they like about their provider? What did they not like also if certain providers or I know my midwife practice was only in a certain hospital. and we, even though I loved the practice, the hospital was so atrocious that we couldn't, we didn't return to them.

<00:18:46> Kayla Levin: So if I had known someone else using that practice, Getting that information, what was that whole experience like? So like crowdsourcing is great.

<00:18:56> Lauren Seidman: yeah. Asking around is great. And if you are asking for recommendations, it's also just helpful to ask around and find out like what you're saying, what the vibe was and see if that resonates with you.

<00:19:06> like, when I was looking for new OB, at one point I asked a friend who I knew was like similar to me in terms of like her birth preferences. And I ended up using the practice that she used. whereas I know there are other providers that could be popular, but that wouldn't necessarily be the right, fit for me. So I think, I don't know. I think also, even if someone hasn't done like any official childbirth education, like they haven't taken their class yet, or they haven't even started reading books or whatever. I do believe that as women, we have this sort of like intuition about what feels right for us.

<00:19:46> Lauren Seidman: and what feels supportive. And so I wanna just say, when someone, when you're picking a provider, listen, listen to what your gut's telling you, if someone's not giving you like the right vibe, then maybe that's a sign that's not the right person for you when you pick, keep looking.

<00:20:02> Kayla Levin: Yeah. yeah, that's a great point. That's a great point. Yeah. I'll also just say, I do have one friend who I know does this, she goes in and she interviews doctors. and I it's O first of all, it's okay. If they're not comfort, if they don't like, if that's not, what's normal for them, that's okay, that's fine.

<00:20:20> Kayla Levin: You don't have to comply. And, it's, even though if you're like me, you see a doctor as an authority figure at the end of the day, you're the one who decides if you're gonna stay, use this doctor or not. This is your decision. it's not, It's you're you have the agency to choose and doing that work, I would just recommend for anyone who's like me or who just would see that could be an issue.

<00:20:40> Kayla Levin: Just like selling yourself on doing that work in the beginning. Just like you're saying it's harder to do it later. I don't wanna do it later. I don't wanna be like arguing with my doctor later. Let me sell myself on finding someone that I feel really excited about. Like I love my doctor. I, I wanna go see my doctor.

<00:20:55> Kayla Levin: I want to ask them my questions. I feel comfortable. I don't feel embarrassed in front of them. Sure.

<00:21:00> Lauren Seidman: Yeah. For sure. Those are all really important points. Yeah, definitely.

<00:21:04> Kayla Levin: Okay. so you said, let's make sure we've got, you gave like three principles, right? So you said the location, you said the provider and then education.

<00:21:12> Kayla Levin: So you're extra qualified to talk about number three. So what and how, what should people be looking for in terms of education and how does education make it more of a positive experience?

<00:21:23> Lauren Seidman: For sure. It's a great question. So in terms of. I'll answer your second question first, in terms of how can education make it more of a positive experience when you can understand how the birth process works and what your body is actually doing during labor and birth?

<00:21:44> Lauren Seidman: I think that alone makes it less scary. When I give classes, I have my, I ask my students to complete an a questionnaire before the class starts and I ask them to share any fears or concerns with me that would help me inform, how I'm giving over the information. And the vast majority of people say the pain, like I'm terrified of the pain of labor and they're completely justified in, in having that fear.

<00:22:17> number one, because. Culturally we, and in media or movies, TV, whatever people have been exposed to the narrative around birth is always that it's painful and terrible and scary. So that's what people are coming in with. but then when you take, when you educate yourself from like a factual standpoint, not from a TV show and understand what, how does the birth process actually work?

<00:22:46> Lauren Seidman: What is it doing? What's actually the role of pain in labor. Cause there actually is a role that pain does have in labor. And what are some tools that I can use to work with the pain or help me cope with the pain. I'm not even talking about an epidural, by the way, like an epidural is a tool that you can use to cope with the pain, but there are other things that you can do that don't require medication to work with the pain.

<00:23:09> Lauren Seidman: So I think once people are getting more comfortable with, oh, that's how the breath process works. Oh, when it's getting more intense, that's actually a good sign. That's actually bringing me closer to my baby. It starts to change your perspective around the pain, which can help you have a more. I do think it can help you have a more positive experience cuz now you understand what's happening.

<00:23:31> Kayla Levin: Number one and number two, now you've learned tools for how to deal with it. You're not just oh my gosh, I'm in pain. I don't know what to do. Cuz that's a very scary, that's a very scary deal. and we spend our entire life, most of us, unless you're like a pro athlete or something with the association, that pain means that there's like an injury or there's physical damage and there's danger to my body.

<00:23:52> Kayla Levin: So now all of a sudden we need to make this shift of this pain means everything's going Exactly. Complete paradigm shift. if we haven't had that experience before or even if that's just not a main experience. So then just that. Rewiring and reminding ourselves like, this is, this doesn't mean totally that I'm in danger.

<00:24:11> Kayla Levin: This doesn't mean that I'm, you know right. Getting hurt right now.

<00:24:15> Lauren Seidman: Yes, exactly. Yeah. And then in every other area, Pain means pain equals bad, basically, and pain equals, We wanna get rid of that. You have a headache, take the Tylenol, you, your throat hurts. Maybe you have strep throat.

<00:24:27> there's a signal. Like what you're saying, it's signaling something is wrong. Whereas by, by labor, when you're 38, 39 weeks pregnant and you're like, ha had enough of your pregnancy and you start, you like feel that first contraction, which could be a twinge uncomfortable and then it gets more it's actually, it could be.

<00:24:49> Kayla Levin: Kind of exciting, yay, finally, something's happening. Like I'm having my baby, it's complete opposite. you, you want that, like you're waiting for those contractions to start. Okay. And we'll come back to the pain piece too, because we both love this, thought work.

<00:25:01> Kayla Levin: Like where does thought work and birth interact, In terms of the whole process. Yeah. It's very, in terms of just to, to follow up on that question of education, helping us having a, more, to have a more PO positive birth experience. I guess what I would love to, if we could just address, like what options are available, like what would be some of the things, the main things that you would recommend someone to either look into?

<00:25:24> Kayla Levin: Sure. And include yours please.

<00:25:28> Lauren Seidman: Yeah. So in terms of education, okay. So what, so you asked what, So what someone should be looking for. so similar to. Similar to what we were saying before about finding like a place of birth and a provider that fits your preferences. I think finding a class that's gonna be a good fit for you.

<00:25:42> Lauren Seidman: So you mentioned earlier in this talk that when you took your birth class, you didn't feel like the person was like so relatable so find a, find an instruc, an instructor that you feel comfortable with, like that, you're gonna not be afraid to ask your questions to. when people ask me questions, sorry, if this is TMI, blah, blah, blah, or sorry, if this is weird, I'm like, there's no TMI,

<00:26:05> Kayla Levin: your job is TMI.

<00:26:06> there's no TMI, So I want people to feel like comfortable coming to me with those types of questions and someone who is your vibe and someone who's like birth philosophy fits yours. If you are really committed to having a. A certain type of birth. Let's just say, I think this is like the reputation that birth classes get.

<00:26:25> Lauren Seidman: If you're really committed to having an unmedicated birth and low intervention, and you really wanna experience the full thing, no epidural, all of that, which that's a, if that's your ideal birth, I hope that you, I truly hope that you get that you might wanna find a class that is going to give you all the tools and information and stuff that will you feel is gonna prepare you for that type of experience.

<00:26:53> Lauren Seidman: If you are, frankly, like most of my students who come to me and say I'm pretty sure I'm getting an epidural or I'm considering getting an epidural or they're not totally against getting an epidural, then you might wanna take a class that is like a little less like pushing low intervention, so to speak because you don't wanna feel.

<00:27:14> Lauren Seidman: Like at least I could just speak for my own classes. Like I never want anyone to feel like, you're doing something wrong by choosing medical interventions, let's say. so the birth philosophy, I think has a lot to do with it. vibing with your instructor and, logistically also like

<00:27:31> Kayla Levin: , Does it have to be a local class or do you offer online?

<00:27:35> Lauren Seidman: So my classes right now are still on zoom. I do offer in-person classes like private classes, like close to where I live, hoping to go back to in-person group classes at some point maybe next year stay tuned. But right now the virtual group classes are going really well. So I'm sticking with that. but yeah, logistically, some people might want a really comprehensive class and that might be six weeks of three hour classes each time.

<00:28:00> Lauren Seidman: Now, if you ask me my opinion as a child birth educator, I think everyone should take that type of class. I think that's great because there's so much to learn. Do I teach that type of class? No, I don't because I. I know that not everyone's gonna sign up for such a long class. So then there's other types of classes too.

<00:28:16> Lauren Seidman: There are like weekend intensive classes or there's, you can take classes that are like two Sundays in a row. The way I teach it's for, my group classes, generally speaking, it's a six, it's a six class and it's either broken up it's a three weeks or four weeks. So I find that's like enough to give people enough information.

<00:28:33> and it's also, I also like. spaced out where meaning like it's consecutive weeks. So people have like time to digest and yeah. Ask questions. The following where sometimes like with the weekend class, maybe your work you're in your spouse's work schedules only work where you take a weekend class, which is fine.

<00:28:49> Lauren Seidman: But then you're just keep in mind that like you're getting all the information in one day and you don't necessarily have that much time to digest it, whatever there's pros and cons of different formats. Yeah. but I think logistically finding something, that's gonna be like the right fit for you and something that you could, you could commit to obviously, yeah.

<00:29:03> Kayla Levin: Okay. That's really your question. yeah. For sure. Okay. I wrote this one down to, it could be there's nothing, but I was curious if you feel like there are things that I on like most common surprises, are there things that you just see that are people weren't expecting or yeah.

<00:29:22> Lauren Seidman: Yeah. It's so interesting.

<00:29:24> Lauren Seidman: I've had some students like follow,I do follow up with. all my students after that's the truth, but I've had some students who I've had like more in depth conversations about things that surprise them. one thing that has come up a lot recently is that like people who got an epidural, like it's, it stops being as effective when it's time for pushing might seem really specific, but I've been hearing this a lot.

<00:29:50> so I guess just to make that a little more gen general is don't, it's just for people to, I don't know, to have multiple tools in your toolkit for how you're gonna work with labor. So whether that's learning different coping techniques, that's great. And maybe plan getting an epidural.

<00:30:06> Lauren Seidman: Okay, great. But what if your epidural doesn't work? Is that gonna be your only tool in your toolkit? that makes me nervous. cause I've hearing her people like the epidural stops working. So like then what are you gonna do? so having other tools in your toolkit, like coping techniques, or maybe hiring a doula or making sure your husband is super on board, if he's gonna be our support person or if you're have a friend or, your mom coming to the birth, making sure they're really prepared to support you.

<00:30:29> Lauren Seidman: Like making sure you have this, like I know you can't see on the podcast, but I'm like making a circle with my hand, like having this like holistic approach and not just like tunnel visioning into one way of doing it. so that's definitely one of the surprises that I hear. I think also, just that it's always surprising to me honestly, and I've heard tons of birth stories at this point, but just how different everyone's births unfold.

<00:30:50> Lauren Seidman: Some people. Ha, even if it's their first baby, their birth is really quick. Like pretty quick, like it's could be like, eight hours. That's like really quick for first time birth. But some people it's 36 hours and that's also really surprising. So I think just being open that there's a wide range of what's normal when it comes to the length of labor I think then also in the postpartum period, that's where a lot of surprises ends up coming up. I think people are, sometimes taken aback by how challenging that is.

<00:31:26> Kayla Levin: People don't know that nursing hurts. Meaning I know there are people on the planet who it's not a painful thing, but for so many women, I've have, more in my personal life than in my coaching life. Where it just feels like this is not fair. nobody warned me. We were so focused on the birth. I didn't even think right than on the other side, there was more, there's more adjustment for your body.

<00:31:47> Kayla Levin: There's a lot more going on. Yeah. That was, and how to recover thing ways you can help your body to recover.

<00:31:53> Lauren Seidman: Yep. For sure. The recovery for me, like I'm speaking from my own personal experience. After my oldest was born, I was in complete shock by the postpartum experience and how I felt and how shock it was just shocking.

<00:32:09> Lauren Seidman: Everything about it was just shocking. my physical recovery nursing, how demanding it was taking care of a new baby. And I do, in my classes, I, we do have a class on postpartum and what to expect and how to set yourself up for success. That being said, I. I, I think sometimes it's hard for people to really appreciate what it's gonna be like until you're really in it.

<00:32:35> and like how hard it is. I've definitely had a lot of conversations that left me with the feeling of men. Most people assume it's it? Yeah, I'll be tired, but it's gonna be fine. There's just so much more to it than that. so I, so that, and that could be really surprising for people.

<00:32:52> so I guess the only the best advice I could offer anyone listening, who is preparing to have a baby, is that even if you don't know exactly what it's gonna be, like, you can still line up resources and support. Sure. You need them because you,how much would you tell a first time mom that she should.

<00:33:11> you had mentioned before, like we, I have a podcast talking about when you bring home baby for the first time. , I'm very big on go by three months segments, right? Mm-hmm your first three months you take like all your responsibilities. What I didn't talk out is like the first three days, and then the next three days, which like really when it comes to your physical recovery.

<00:33:29> Kayla Levin: Yeah. it goes down to days, right? it's not months and yeah. Especially because we have it, I think it's almost like this backward logic that, because most people it's I feel like for working women, we look at how much maternity leave we get and we assume that's how long it'll take to be up and running a hundred percent.

<00:33:45> As opposed to being like, this is how much I get, and I have no idea how long it'll take me to be up and running. And what that even looks And of course that changes with each fam each additional family member and all of that. So what would you give people as a guideline in terms of really just feeling.

<00:34:03> Kayla Levin: I don't know, I don't wanna say functional as in, they can go back to their life. Yeah. But healed even right,

<00:34:14> Lauren Seidman: right there. I don't think there's really one. There's not one right answer. Everyone's gonna be different. the first

<00:34:24> Lauren Seidman: I think of it as milestone, like similar to you, there's three months cycles, but the first one to two weeks are. One milestone, like typically the hardest, especially. Yeah. my students that have had like cesarean birth sale, they've all said like pretty much the first two weeks are the hardest.

<00:34:42> in terms of like recovery, it gets better after that, if you had an uncomplicated vaginal birth with minimal tearing, then you're probably gonna feel sore, but it might go away. It will probably resolve sooner. but it's not just your physical recovery. Like it's this whole emotional shift of.

<00:34:59> Lauren Seidman: Becoming a mother, like there's a name for this. It's called essense. So that, and that lasts way longer than two, six weeks, 12 weeks. that is like years literally. So when I think about the postpartum recovery period, I'm thinking about the physical recovery. And I'm also thinking about that identity shift, where even if you feel physically better, which is obviously huge, like everyone wants to feel physically normal, socially and emotionally, you're going through this change.

<00:35:29> Lauren Seidman: And I think, I'm biased when I speak about this, cuz that was like a big part of my own experience after I had my first, like that just takes a long time and that is okay. just to feel like I'm reaching this new normal of who am I'm a mom now, what does that mean? what is my identity socially with my family, with my friends, with my.

<00:35:50> Lauren Seidman: You know my work. So anyway, that's like a whole other conversation, but practically speaking, I think when it comes to postpartum recovery, thinking about, the first few days postpartum, that's probably gonna be the most intense you're gonna be, you've been up potentially for an entire day giving birth and now you're recovering.

<00:36:07> Lauren Seidman: Like I compare it to pulling it all, nighter, running a marathon, and then having to start a new job. that's how I, it like, Got it. If you pull an all nighter, then you ran a marathon, that's like labor and birth, and then you're starting a new job and I have to take care of these babies. when we start a new job under normal conditions, we have support.

<00:36:26> Lauren Seidman: We have training, we have mentors. So why when we have a baby and we've in essence, pulled them all night or run a marathon. And now we're starting that new job. We expect to do it all ourselves and to look good and to look good and have makeup on and be dressed. That just makes absolutely no sense.

<00:36:43> Lauren Seidman: So under normal regular circumstances, think about when you start a job, how much support and information you have for assuming your, company has a good HR department, but we'll just take that as an assumption.

<00:36:52> Kayla Levin: We're seeing your HR background coming out .

<00:36:55> Lauren Seidman: You've had some like communications beforehand and all that.

<00:36:58> When you have a baby, just on a simple level, you go think of it as starting a new job. And so what type of support are, you're gonna need, maybe you wanna have some friends on call. Who've already had babies and they can support you. Maybe you wanna think about how busy you're gonna be, were taking care of your own recovery and the baby, which is a full-time job.

<00:37:17> Lauren Seidman: So maybe you wanna outsource something, create a meal, train, have people bring you food. Yeah. I know Kayla, you speak about this in your podcast and you spend a little, if, if you're able to budget a little bit of extra money for extra cleaning, help or takeout or whatever it is, I'm thinking this is just temporary.

<00:37:30> Lauren Seidman: This is just to get me off the ground. This is not a commitment I'm making for life. I love that. you put it like that. So just thinking about it as. starting a new job and you're starting a new job under suboptimal conditions. Like you haven't slept and right. You ran a marathon.

<00:37:44> Lauren Seidman: So like all the more stuff. so I think it's just having like realistic expectations around that. the first couple weeks are definitely the most intense. I do think that people turn a quarter corner a lot of times after six weeks. And then definitely after three, four months, for me, six months is a big turning 0.8 months.

<00:38:00> Lauren Seidman: I'm like, okay, I can understand why like people enjoy this. , that's why I felt after my first was born. I'm like, he's so cute now. Like they start sleeping better. Yeah. Yeah. And then the first year when my, when I have friends or students whose babies 20 a year, I'm like, really, this is a mole tub for you as the parents.

<00:38:18> Lauren Seidman: Like you survived a year of being

<00:38:20> Kayla Levin: and the other big piece of it. And I hope we're not completely freaking everyone out but is that. Your own hormones are in a completely different place from month to month. And so there's a certain point at which you're just getting more regulated and different people respond differently to nursing really, and to all the hormones of the birth.

<00:38:38> And yeah, it's totally normal for a person to give birth and then to just be like very weepy because yeah, all this stuff has come up for you and it's all hormonal and it needs to get through your system. okay. I have one question I have to ask you. So I know that my experience has always been that like, if I were to go into shul within a week of giving birth or something like that, like every older person be like, you cannot be on your feet, you need to be sitting down.

<00:39:03> how true is that? is that really important?

<00:39:07> Lauren Seidman: I don't know. that's the other thing I wanted say medically people have this appointment usually like six weeks postpartum, like to get quote unquote medical clearance. But that, I just wanna say here, like that doesn't necessarily mean everything is like ready to go, like back to normal, a lot of people will need more time or, pelvic floor physical therapy to re rehabilitate their body.

<00:39:26> yeah. So that's a really good point. Thank you for saying that, putting that out here

<00:39:29> Lauren Seidman: in terms of like medically not being able to be on your feet. I don't know. I think I, when it comes to postpartum recovery, certainly the priorities should be resting recovery and bonding. So being out and about in shul, may not fall into those categories.

<00:39:51> Kayla Levin: So if you need, I'm a little more conservative when it comes to that. If you're, if you're asking my opinion, I'm like one of those, like older ladies, you'll be like, what are you doing here? I would definitely agree with them. and you feel it, if you push yourself too hard, you do feel it.

<00:40:07> Lauren Seidman: I know would always be like my first Target trip with the baby. I'd always come home and be I'm paying for it for two days. I'm like, no, why didn't I push this off one more week? Like you might start feeling better, which is obviously good. being a little more conservative, keeping in mind that your body has been through a very intense experience and you medically speaking, you do have a wound inside of your uterus or from where the placenta's attached and that has to heal.

<00:40:34> if you're not taking it easy, then your healing could take longer. you might experience, you're bleeding, postpartum may stop and then it might start up again. And obviously no one wants that. Cause that's not pleasant for many different reasons. so just keeping in mind that it's not a race, you don't need to subscribe to the bounce back philosophy.

<00:40:55> Lauren Seidman: You can. Take care of yourself and in the long run, it's gonna be, it's gonna be better for you.

<00:41:00> Kayla Levin: Yeah. I always would get this like major adrenaline surge where I'm like, And my husband would be like, today's the day we have to change you to the couch. cause I'm like, I really think we should clutter the garage right now.

<00:41:12> Lauren Seidman: Totally. Yeah. the other thing is that we feel, and I was having this conversation with a client of mine whose husband is actually a therapist. So we had gone into this whole conversation around why do we feel this pressure to be so like, quote, unquote productive after we have, like, when we have a baby, we feel like postpartum recovery and taking care of a newborn.

<00:41:34> Lauren Seidman: That's not productive, but getting things done. So to speak in our house, that's productive. Like why do we feel like that? And I think when you have a new baby. If we have to remember that, like taking care of yourself and taking care of a helpless newborn that is really productive and important work.

<00:41:57> yeah. You don't, let's just value what's happening for a second. Yes. Yes.

<00:42:02> Kayla Levin: And I, and it's okay. If you have to remind yourself of that every 20 minutes

<00:42:06> Lauren Seidman: totally. Or just, yeah. Remind yourself of that. Put it on the sticky you note or tell your husband, please just remind me of this. Yeah.

<00:42:12> Lauren Seidman: Because culturally and socially, we don't really value that. And that's sad. so amazing. Yeah.

<00:42:20> Kayla Levin: Okay. We also wanted to talk about getting your husband on board. Okay. or Yeah, different challenges with, how involved he might be or, I know at least from my perspective, I think a lot of women go into birth with a certain expectation of how their husband's supposed to perform.

<00:42:37> Kayla Levin: You think that,

<00:42:37> Lauren Seidman: what do you mean by that?

<00:42:38> Kayla Levin: Meaning like supportive looks like this to me,

<00:42:42> Kayla Levin: Uhhuh And, I think that it's very helpful to look at what's going on in your relationship and what your husband like, there's the husband that you have in your head and there's the husband that you have, who you're married to right.

<00:42:55> Kayla Levin: And different husbands have different skill sets totally. And are capable of different things. I remember like with my first we was like one of these extremely long births. and I remember my doula saying to me, I need to go get food for your husband. And he needs to take a nap. And I was like, huh, excuse me.

<00:43:10> I'm the one in the middle of this. I'm not eating, I'm not taking a nap,like very quickly it hit me because she, I had that outside person saying it to me and was like, wait, just because I'm not like. He still has all his normal bodily functions, right? this guy still needs to function and he needs to take care of himself, but he was, and that's just one example, but different ways in which we expect them to show up.

<00:43:31> Kayla Levin: So we want them on board. We want their support at the same time. We won't wanna create this whole like instruction manual for how they have to be for us to feel supported. So I would just love to hear kind of any tips or thoughts you think that's,

<00:43:44> Lauren Seidman: that whole thing is more in your camp than , but I'll answer as best I can.

<00:43:50> Lauren Seidman: So yes, I do. in my experience teaching, I do teach, husbands and wives together. I know that's not always the norm, especially like in the, Jewish, Orthodox community. A lot of classes are geared just for women. And even if someone's list, even if someone's not in the Jewish, Orthodox community, like even all the stuff that's out there, the apps that you might download on your phone or the Instagram handles that you're gonna follow, or the books you're gonna read, most husbands are not.

<00:44:17> Lauren Seidman: 99% of husbands are not downloading those apps, following those Instagram accounts or reading those books, they're not cause it's targeted towards women. So I think, in terms of getting your husband, being in this together with your husband, one great thing that you can do is take a class together.

<00:44:33> so that he, you are hearing the same information at the same time and you can process it together. I have to say in my own classes, like the husbands that are in my class, they ask the best they ask the best question. I get a lot of great questions from the pregnant women themselves too. don't get me wrong.

<00:44:48> Lauren Seidman: I always learning from the questions that I get, but I've had some really interesting questions from the husband and I love it because I'm seeing, I see birth. I'm a woman I've given birth myself. I'm seeing birth from the women's. And I wanna see it from like how they're thinking about it.

<00:45:04> Lauren Seidman: Like a lot of times, like the men are thinking about things more like practically and like logistically and wanna have a plan. And that could be a really empowering way for them to support you, like taking care of the logistical pieces of this birth experience.

<00:45:20> Kayla Levin: So during the class together really helps because even if a person, a woman doesn't take a class, like she's been picking up little teeny pieces of information, her whole life, which like he has not because he has not been in those conversations at that park bench or whatever.

<00:45:33> Kayla Levin: And so bringing him in, then he has enough to be in the game. I love that. Yeah.

<00:45:38> Lauren Seidman: And I would also venture to say that the vast majority of husbands, they want, they wanna understand what's going on. this is their baby too. so much of this gets channeled so much on the mom, but I really think like they like the, Husband, like they wanna be involved.

<00:45:57> Lauren Seidman: Like they wanna understand what's happening. And the more education also that they have, then the better you guys can go into this experience, together. and he can maybe then figure out how he feels like he can support you. if you have a husband that I've had to so many different types of, husbands in my class, like some wanna be a little more hands off.

<00:46:19> Lauren Seidman: And so for someone like that, then hiring a doula might be. Excuse me. They might wanna, they might understand now more why there's a need to have a doula present. Like you mentioned you had a doula present at your birth. Yeah. Because they don't wanna, they just don't feel like they could take on that like full responsibility.

<00:46:35> Lauren Seidman: And I would definitely agree with that choice because, it's his first birth, it's her first birth, but we, you hire a doula. It's not their first rodeo, so they can really be there to support both of you. Then I have had a handful of husbands that are reading all the books and following all the Instagram accounts.

<00:46:50> Lauren Seidman: And they're like, messaging me, like

<00:46:51> Lauren Seidman: he's like a certified doula by the time of baby account. they're, they wanna be a doula and you have those types too. And so their support is gonna look a lot different and there's, again, it's not like there's one right way. It's figuring out what's gonna be the best thing for the two of you.

<00:47:05> so yeah,

<00:47:07> Kayla Levin: absolutely. It's just because you're having a baby doesn't mean he's now like a certified. Massage therapist, right? Like exactly. He's gonna have the same skillset he had before you, we don't really have a choice. We're all just gonna

<00:47:19> Lauren Seidman: totally. And even, I think sometimes like husbands could feel like they, they, you could feel, I don't know, maybe cut out of the equation a little bit, or they don't know what to do.

<00:47:32> Lauren Seidman: They don't know how to be involved. And I also just think that it's important for people to know that just like their presence is that says a, that says a lot. And even if that means that they're. Even, whether they're in the room, out of the room, I've had couples that have different customs around that, whether they're just, whether they're praying throughout the birth like that, or, saying Tehillim, whatever it is like that could be really powerful for some couples.

<00:47:56> Lauren Seidman: And that could be a really amazing way for him to show his support. I think sitting in the corner, texting on your phone is probably gonna feel unsupportive to most people , but that doesn't mean to be like, you're either sitting in the corner, not involved at all on one side of the spectrum or being her doula on the other side of the spectrum.

<00:48:15> there's a lot of in between. So like figuring out what's gonna make most sense for both of you and then as needed hiring extra support. If you feel like that's something that's gonna be helpful for you, go doula. Yeah. that could be a good way to find so that everyone's getting feelings like they're getting what they need.

<00:48:30> Yeah. Okay. last one. And I know that, we probably could take an entire episode just on this last topic, so we'll just try and get like the highlights of it. But, one, one question I've been getting it's so interesting. I get this question privately a lot. and I'm like, you, this is not a, this is not a, we can totally ask this publicly, which is basically how can I use my mindset to deal with the pain, right?

<00:48:56> a woman who is, let's say she's in her eighth or ninth month, she's starting to really just gear up for that. And her often it'll be some version of my biggest fear is that at some point, I'm just gonna think I can't do this. And then what's, what will I do? I'll they wanna keep a feeling of control.

<00:49:15> so I'm sure this is something that you touch on yeah. As well. What would you recommend?

<00:49:20> Lauren Seidman: Totally. So it's a great question. Birth is a physical process, obviously, but it's not just physical. It's also mental and emotional and people's mental state and emotional state does feed a lot into the birth.

<00:49:36> so when it comes to your mentality around birth, we touched on this before, but thinking about the pain, like reorienting, number one around how you think about the pain . So if we are coming into this with pain is bad, I need to get rid of it. Then that's gonna be much more challenging when it comes to birth.

<00:49:53> Lauren Seidman: Even if someone is planning on getting Anur, you. There is time during labor. When an epidural may not be available to you for various reasons, you might be laboring at home, can't get an epidural in your house. not you show up to the hospital when you're like in active labor. So you've been laboring for a while, right?

<00:50:12> Lauren Seidman: So having the mentality around birth that pain is not just that's pain is not only a bad thing that we need to get rid of, but that pain is actually something that I can work with and cope with. So I like to give the analogy of someone running a marathon, right? Someone is running a marathon. If you ask them, I've never run a marathon, but I would guess, you ask them like, is this comfortable for you right now?

<00:50:36> are you feeling really physically comfortable right now? They're not gonna say yes. but why are they doing that? Because they've set a goal for themselves or because it's gonna give them this feeling of euphoria and empowerment at the end. And I think when it comes to birth, it's very similar.

<00:50:53> Lauren Seidman: So you can have some sort of, goal at the end, which is I'm gonna meet my baby at the end of this, or I wanna feel a certain way at the end of this. And the other thing is that mentally, I think it can get really overwhelming to think about, oh my gosh, how many hours do I have left? Because unlike a marathon where there's like a definite endpoint with birth, we don't exactly know how long it's gonna be.

<00:51:13> but similarly, like with the marathon, it's okay, I'm just gonna get to the next quarter mile. I'm just gonna get to the next checkpoint. Or I'm just gonna, I get a water break at this point or whatever it is, same thing with birth. I'm just gonna do one contraction at a time, not thinking about how much longer do I have to go, but just looking at what's in front of you and working with that, , it can be a really helpful, coping technique.

<00:51:35> Lauren Seidman: That's really purely just mental, just a mental game. I think so. Yeah. just to sum up that one is that. Learning about the role of pain and labor, why it's helpful and what it means as the pain gets more intense. It means that labor's progressing, which is what we want. It's not bad. So that's number one.

<00:51:56> Lauren Seidman: And number two is, that coping technique of not thinking about, oh my gosh, how much longer do I have to go? But just looking at what's front in front of you and taking it one at a time. and then I guess I would, I would add on to that, that there are other like specific coping mechanisms out there such as, conscious breathing, focusing on your breath or visualization, thinking about your body opening or thinking about your happy place.

<00:52:21> Lauren Seidman: Like those are like visualization techniques someone could use or positive affirmations, right? I'm just one contraction at a time where every contraction brings me closer to my baby or, just the contraction will peak and then it falls. So I just need to, get to that peak, like playing mind games with yourself.

<00:52:36> those are all things that. Personally helped me during my labor. I don't teach anything that I don't, that I haven't think thought is actually helpful. But also those are things that, that can help people cope with the discomfort that comes along with the labor process. And yeah, also, and then just to sum that up, like you said, what, if someone gets to a point where they feel totally out of control and they can't do it anymore, that has a name it's called crisis of confidence, which means when someone gets to the point of I can't do this anymore, that actually is a really good sign that their labor is progressing and they're getting closer to the end.

<00:53:13> Kayla Levin: Really.

<00:53:14> Lauren Seidman: So like turning that on the head a little bit of that's a really common thing that can happen around what's called like transitional labor, like at the end of the process. Yeah. Where the cervix is dilating fully. So for someone to say, I can't do this anymore, or, I'm done, or I had enough, or if someone's planning to birth without an epidural, they might start asking for an epidural.

<00:53:32> Lauren Seidman: And at that point I would encourage anyone who's birthing or supporting someone who's in labor to, especially the support people to remember that is actually a sign that things are progressing and that person in labor needs your support even more now to get them over that hurdle. you are already doing this.

<00:53:52> Lauren Seidman: You're so close to the end. Yes. Things like that.

<00:53:55> Kayla Levin: And it's so interesting cuz that, that specific thing like plays in a lot. I did hypno babies with one of my kids.

<00:54:00> Lauren Seidman: Oh, Uhhuh.

<00:54:01> Kayla Levin: . And so much of it is about just trying to like lower your body's resistance to the contractions and just like allowing them to do the work.

<00:54:07> Kayla Levin: And so it's interesting that you're saying that When people get to that point where they're getting close to where they're in transition and they start thinking, I can't control this, it's yeah, that's the point Like the point is like stop trying to control it. Once we let go of that control actually allows our bodies to, to do what they like, they're doing the, body's doing the work. We just get out the way a little bit. totally.

<00:54:28> Lauren Seidman: There's definitely a piece of just surrendering to the yeah. Experience. Yeah.

<00:54:33> Kayla Levin: Okay. This was amazing.

<00:54:35> Kayla Levin: Thank you so much. I wanna make sure that people can follow up with you, learn more about you. So you could just share like again, your handle, your website, your email, wherever you want people to reach out to you.

<00:54:46> Lauren Seidman: Definitely. Thank you so much. This is great, conversation. people can find me.

<00:54:51> Lauren Seidman: So my website is And my Instagram handle is at @birth_positive. And all my contact information is either my Instagram or website. You can email me, text me, call me.

<00:55:09> Kayla Levin: Okay, amazing. And I'll have everything linked in the show notes so people can find it there as well. Okay.

<00:55:14> Kayla Levin: Thank you. This one was overdue and just kinda, you've been born now. Perfect. But now, yeah, now it's here and in the world and, I'm so glad that we have this to offer to our people and, and I'm so glad they got to meet you because I know the, for sure, there's many people here who like really resonate with you and with your tone and energy and are looking for a more positive birth.

<00:55:33> Kayla Levin: So thank you so much.

<00:55:35> Lauren Seidman: Thanks for this opportunity. I appreciate it.

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