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Episode 182 - Get Ready for Pesach with Meira Spivak

Updated: Mar 18

Stress is not contagious! Right?

Anyone relate to this?

Every year I get so excited about Pesach, I have my checklist and my calendar, and no matter where I'm actually holding at some point the stress starts to creep in. Even on years where I've actually had ample time to get everything done, even on years where I didn't compare any notes with any friends on what everyone was up to.

So while I know pre-Pesach stress isn't technically contagious, it sometimes feels like it is! I have to remind myself, I don't actually NEED to be stressed out right now! (And then repeat that reminder approximately 825 times an hour.)

So if you relate, please let this be your reminder (and mine!)--we're all gonna get there, and it's going to be AMAZING.


  1. How to Get Ready for Pesach in Five Days

  2. This Isn't About Cutting Corners

  3. The Mindset Shift

  4. What's The Alternative?

  5. The Working Genius Model

  6. How We Show Up on Pesach


Meira's Bio

Meira Spivak is the director of Oregon NCSY, where over the past 17 years she has been developing educational programming for teens and parents. Meira helps organizations solve strategic problems through her Results Driven Innovation workshops. Using the Systematic Inventive Thinking (SIT) method of creativity, Meira can teach anyone how to innovate on demand - after all, creativity is a skill that can be learned. Meira strives to be efficient with her time and is the author of the book How to Make Pesach in 5 Days. As a mother of a large family, Meira understands the stresses of everyday life and when she's not busy stressing from them, she's laughing at them.

Meira can be contacted at or through her website

Ep 182 - Get Ready for Pesach with Meira

<00:00:00> Kayla Levin: Episode 182 Get Ready for Pesach with Meira Spivak

<00:00:04> ​

<00:00:04> Kayla Levin: Hello my friends. We are in the final days getting ready for Pesach, which I have to say I love Pesach . I really do, and I'm so excited for it and I know we're all gonna get there. So this episode is coming out. I wanted to give you kind of this, uh, , I don't wanna say last minute boost.

<00:00:55> Kayla Levin: It's not quite last minute yet, but, you know, home stretch Boost and who better to talk about it than Meira Spivak who wrote the book, How to Make Pesach in Five Days. So I thought this would be really perfect. Um, really whether you have a whole system or you have no system, whether you're really, really on the ball or you feel like you're behind.

<00:01:15> Kayla Levin: I know that for me around this time, no matter how. Much I plan how much I feel like even if I check every box off my list, there will always be that little niggling voice being like, maybe you should have done this a little bit sooner. Like even if I, I know it's coming and I plan for it and I'm trying, you know, like I'm not gonna do that this year.

<00:01:35> Kayla Levin: There's always that little, like, maybe we're behind. It's almost as if it becomes contagious, like this energy of we need to hurry or we're behind, or something like that. So maybe just as much for me as it is for you. I hope this episode will really show you that when we're really clear on how we're using our time, then Pesach doesn't have to stretch from Hanukkah, you know, until Seder night.

<00:02:00> Kayla Levin: It does not have to. And if you're a fan of the planning versus execution concept, you're gonna see that this fits in really, really, really beautifully. So enjoy the interview. If you are wanting to apply any of this, get focused on the time management piece, especially the planning versus execution.

<00:02:15> Kayla Levin: This is something that we focus on a lot inside of how to Glow, and I will tell you that. Things like getting ready for Pesach. Things like getting ready for Shabbos can go so much more smoothly and there can be so much more positivity in your life.

<00:02:26> Kayla Levin: So If this is a pain point for you, I wanna encourage you to get inside of how to glow. Like today, , just go to You can join. You can join us on the next call. You can start submitting your questions. You can watch my time management class, literally within moments of joining our community and our amazing, amazing online program.

<00:02:45> Kayla Levin: It's super reasonable. It's $49 a month. There's really no reason not to do it. Be a nice little afikoman, present for yourself. All right. Enjoy the interview and have an amazing, amazing

<00:02:55> Introduction to Meira Spivak ---

<00:02:55> Kayla Levin: Meira Spivak thank you so much for coming onto the How to Glow podcast and talking to us a little bit about how to, hopefully at this point that this is coming out, being published, not have a complete meltdown that Pesach around the corner

<00:03:13> Meira Spivak: Exactly. Yeah. Thank you so much for being here. I'm excited to share.

<00:03:17> Kayla Levin: Can you tell us, I think that your whole, like all the things that you do are so fascinating. Do you mind just like, briefly giving us a feel for all the things that Meira Spivak does in her life? ?

<00:03:28> Meira Spivak: Um, I can try. I am a little bit of a random person.

<00:03:32> Meira Spivak: Like somebody, someone will see me and I'm like, wait, why do you, you do this? I'm like, whatever. But I live in Portland, Oregon, so full-time. I work for NCSY. My husband and I are involved in Kiruv over here. So definitely a different life. We're both for New York, uh, if that puts things in perspective, uh, in terms of the culture shock.

<00:03:50> Meira Spivak: Uh, but we've been here for really over almost 17 years now. So really love it. Love the people, the place it's been, it's very rewarding. So we're glad we're here. So, you know, again, summer's so gorgeous,

<00:03:59> Kayla Levin: Portland. Oh, it's gorgeous. My husband's like hardcore, tried to push us to move to Portland, Oregon.

<00:04:06> Kayla Levin: Really? Right. Right in the beginning of our marriage, he was like, I really, really wanna live there. It's so beautiful. He's like a hiker and a camera like Guy

<00:04:14> Meira Spivak: Outdoory interested. We're definitely looking for people, so, you know, let us know. Uh, yeah, no, I mean, it's good. I also, I mean, I do really a lot of different things I'm doing.

<00:04:22> Meira Spivak: I do a number of different professional run, a number of different professional development workshops, business coaching. I'm now helping, uh, women to get actually paid fairly, um, in their job for women who feel like they're not really getting adequately. The salary that they deserve. So doing some coaching around that.

<00:04:40> Meira Spivak: So that's fun cuz it's definitely a topic that's passionate. One of my passions. Yeah. Yeah. I'm really passionate about that. Yeah. Making the work, making your workplace and your work environment healthier in a place you wanna be, a place where you feel safe, where you can speak up, where the people care about you and they value your opinions and you know, just providing that context for people.

<00:04:59> Meira Spivak: So a lot of the workshops that I'm running and primarily with nonprofits, um, are around that space. So it's really fascinating. I love it. But, you know, it's funny, I was like, oh, so this, this book. I am just random. I really am random. Well,

<00:05:14> Kayla Levin: at the same time though, it kind of makes sense because somebody who's busy with so many different projects, the book by the way, let's just make sure everyone knows, is, and I'm holding it up for those who are watching the video, it's called How to Make Pesach in Five Days.

<00:05:25> Kayla Levin: Um, I got this last year, like seven days before Pesach probably. You're fine, you're fine. It was a couple weeks actually. It was a couple weeks. And I just have to say this very rarely happens. I sat down and I read it. I think in an entire sitting like you. Kids toys flying past me on the couch. It was so fun to read.

<00:05:42> Kayla Levin: It's, you know, it's not too much, but also it's just, it was just an enjoyable read. So I like almost didn't even need to use the material. I kind of just really enjoyed reading it and then picked and you know, whatever. I'm the type that, like I'll read 10 recipes and then be like, okay, I basically get the idea and then cook something on my own.

<00:05:59> Kayla Levin: I feel like that's kind of how I used this. So I was like, let me read it , and then it was very easy to sort of make it fit into my life because you're not being. Didactic. Like, it has to be like this. It has to be, you know, anyway, so that's why we're here to talk about it. And I think it does make sense that somebody who's doing so many things with her life isn't necessarily looking to make Pesach take the most time possible.

<00:06:24> Meira Spivak: Exactly. And I am very into time management. I, my biggest pet peeve is wasting time. So this book is totally like in my m o . You know, I'm, I, I mixed that up mode of operations. I'm definitely just cause that acronym I'm wrong. But, um, it's, uh, no, I'm very happy that I was able to do it and to help people.

<00:06:41> Meira Spivak: And I, you know, it's funny, I just, I do like to point out the proceeds from the book all do go to tzedaka. They all go to NCSY um, locally in Oregon. So, you know, just important. I didn't want people to know that when they, you know, if they do get the book and they do support, I actually don't keep any of the proceeds.

<00:06:54> Meira Spivak: Wow.

<00:06:55> How to Get Ready for Pesach in Five Days ---

<00:06:55> Kayla Levin: That's amazing. I wanna just like start with the concept cuz I think that that right off the bat, you know, someone might think, well if you're only making Pesach in five days, then that means you're like not really doing it. Um, so one of the things that surprised me about this book was that you kind of are committing to five days of really intense work.

<00:07:13> Kayla Levin: It's not like you're saying, let's just peel this all the way down. You're saying let's clear the deck. Is that right? And can you give us a little bit more about that?

<00:07:23> Meira Spivak: And it's funny, I actually, we were debating, what's it called? A book. And the suggestion was only stress for five days , because that is what the book is about.

<00:07:31> Meira Spivak: That there will be five days of stress, but why does it have to be a month of stress? And that's what, that's really what it is. It's like five days of. We're gonna go. We're not like we are. How you say? Like call your sister like before the five days and be like, I'll see you after Pesach. Like we're not talking, there's five days.

<00:07:47> Meira Spivak: Like I am literally doing one thing and I'm just, and it's not, I'm not taking away any of the process, but it's, I've seen so many women just like stressing for months ahead. It's funny. So I come from a family of like real yekkis and my, when I called my mother and I said, oh, I'm writing this book and.

<00:08:04> Meira Spivak: What do you mean? Like, Pesach in five days? She's like, you know, our family, like we start Hanukkah . And I was like, I, I know, but that's called spring cleaning and Right. We're not. And if you wanna do that, it's great. But like, you know, she was like horrified that there's even like a concept of not starting months before, but I hear so many women and like the stress of like, Pesach's coming, Pesach's coming.

<00:08:23> Meira Spivak: Why? I honestly now when people are like, oh, can you make a, we have Shabbos dinner, we have an event, we have a Shabbaton. I seriously will plan on the week. I'm like, I am not starting until five days before . Like it doesn't mean, again, there's a lot of prep in the book and I do, uh, we'll do like the organizing and things on the spring cleaning before, so then the five days is smooth.

<00:08:43> Meira Spivak: But if you ask me to host a meal before and the five days is, you know, well, we're not on the five days yet. I'm gonna do it because I'm not, I'm committing to only stressing for five days.

<00:08:55> Kayla Levin: This like ties in a lot. There's a, there's a sort of a technique that we use that I've talked about here on the podcast and we use inside my community a lot called planning, planning versus execution.

<00:09:04> Kayla Levin: So we use it for Shabbos or like anytime like a big Yuntif is coming up and it's, the idea is like do all of your prefrontal cortex planning on paper ahead of time or in a computer. And decide like down to the detail, like even like when are you gonna take your lunch break? When are you gonna, like, what are you having for li Like a, as much as you possibly can, take all the decisions out of it so that then when you move into execution, you can just turn on the music and go.

<00:09:28> Kayla Levin: And I feel like this is very similar, meaning the five days is all execution of making Pesach, but the planning piece comes before,

<00:09:36> Meira Spivak: right, exactly. If you come into the five days and you haven't. Bought a bottle of Windex and paper towels, or you haven't, like you're in the three days and you haven't even like bought cans of something, you know you're gonna have a problem.

<00:09:48> Meira Spivak: Yeah. So it's exactly, it's like the execution. You need to prepare it. So that's what I'm saying. It's a lie how five days like a sham, like you're not starting five days more, but. Five days, you're stressing for five days. Like you're not, you'll go to the store, you might buy some stuff, you might order, I did my meat order.

<00:10:02> Meira Spivak: You know what I'm saying? Like, it doesn't mean you're literally waiting five days before to like think about going to the grocery store, but there is no reason that we are stressed enough. We have so much on our plate. Like why are we adding stress? Let's stress and let's again, we're gonna, if you know, sometimes I'm not saying it's okay, something might lose it or might like get upset with someone.

<00:10:23> Meira Spivak: Children, people come in, right. . You imagine if we're doing this for a month before, right? Like it's not even fair. Like again, I'm, of course we don't wanna lose it ever and we always wanna like imperfect medos, but we're like getting upset like a month before Pesach, right? Like Right. There's not even a reason for it.

<00:10:39> Kayla Levin: Right, right. Yeah. And I feel like whether someone, you know, obviously if someone's listening to this and they're like, well, I love starting after Chanukah and this is what works for me. We're not talking to you like this is not meant to say that this is the right way to do it, but I love that you're just putting.

<00:10:54> Kayla Levin: On the spectrum of possibility so that if a person is like, oh my gosh, I only have five days, this is a disaster. Be like, wait a second, me Meira does this, like the bedafka on purpose this way. This doesn't even need to be like a problem in the first place. We can, we can do this. Yeah.

<00:11:10> This Isn't About Cutting Corners ---

<00:11:10> Meira Spivak: And you know, I have heard these people like, how do we pay off on one day?

<00:11:12> Meira Spivak: And I think that is really taking out a lot of like, we're gonna do the minimum. This is not that, like I am not saying to skip on. Thing. You know, again, I personally, you know, there's certain, like, I don't move like necessarily our refrigerator, like whatever our rebut, you know what I'm saying? Like, I don't necessarily move every single, I'm not, that's just because that's not what, you know, we were told that we need to do, but I'm not cutting anything out.

<00:11:35> Meira Spivak: Like if I'm not doing it, it's, cause luckily I was told I wasn't supposed to do that, but Right. Everything is on. Like I'm not cutting the five days means we're doing everything the same way we would. . You know, I wouldn't be, same way in the book I talk about when this thing, when you can't reach certain areas, you winex your pro game or whatever spray you wanna use, and you move on.

<00:11:55> Meira Spivak: Like, I wouldn't, even if this was a month before , it has nothing to do with, I'm in a rush. Like I am not making myself crazy, like there is a crumb and a crack and I can't get it out. Like I don't buy toothbrush. And do, like, I, I wouldn't do that a month before either. Like I don't think that's within and everyone can ask things, but Right.

<00:12:15> Meira Spivak: You know, I'm doing what's in. I believe that what we follow is the realm of . I'm not cutting. So again, the five days in, like you said, we're not doing this in a way that like, oh, oh, it's just five days cuz you know, we're doing it as an express whatever. It's not, we're just concentrating the stress. And again, if you've prepared before, if you've done the spring cleaning before, if I know what's in my kids' drawers, when I go into that room, I always talk about like the motion of like, it's like you go in, you're like close, lift them up, look down, put them down, you know?

<00:12:40> Meira Spivak: And you're just, oh, you're going quickly cuz you've already spring cleaned. When you've already spring cleaned. That's all the muscle little work. . Mm-hmm. , everything's quick. Cuz you've done at a leisurely pace without stress, you're, you know, you're going through your kids's clothes. If your kid come in and they start, you know, fighting or doing, you just put the stuff down and you continue later because it's all without stress.

<00:12:59> Meira Spivak: The stress is only for five days, so everything's done. Four, it's in preparation. So that time get to the five days you're in your room and you're like, you went in the room and you're like, I already have seen this room. Right. I've already like decluttered if I wanted. So the work is much, you know, it's much less people will decide in my kitchen.

<00:13:17> Meira Spivak: So I want to, you know, some people are taping up everything and they buy these portable shelves outside and they just put like their pay stuff if that works for them. And some people will say, I'm gonna clean out some cabinets. And some people will say, I'm not gonna clean any, you know, and I do see in the book if somebody here, um, you know, doesn't sell areas in their house and they have something like a garage, which is equal to a dumping ground for many people.

<00:13:36> Meira Spivak: That is something that, you know, that's a full project. Like if you need to, like if you have a garage that is, or Right. Whatever it is, the storage or whatever it is in your house that is like a war zone. Yes. Okay. And you are not selling that, then you need a little bit more time. Right. But if you're willing to like, you know, sell certain areas that are like just disaster.

<00:13:54> Meira Spivak: But within these five days, it's really going through making sure that in the house there is no chometz, it's clean. You come to the Seder with a nap. I talk about that and we come with an nap. We come, it's, you know, we are like, this is it. This is the, the most regal meal. We're coming like queens and we're showing up.

<00:14:12> Meira Spivak: And it can be that way. It doesn't have to be stressful. Where we're falling asleep, sitting at the Seder and like, you know, I, I hear something, you know, women who are like, I don't know, I was half sleeping. I walked through this. I slept on the couch, I came back, or I couldn't even make it. I went to sleep early.

<00:14:27> Meira Spivak: Like, this is the most important event of the year. You can't fall asleep during the Seder. We're passing on our mesora. We have to be up for this. So we need to schedule in time. We schedule and time with an app we schedule and have for everything, and it all gets done.

<00:14:43> Kayla Levin: It's an interesting hack too, cause I'm thinking about like the different times that I was getting ready for Pesach and often I'll get like stuck in indecision of like, okay, like I, you know, okay, I ha I have this time set aside to get ready for payza, but like I really can't totally start cleaning.

<00:15:00> Kayla Levin: Right. It's cuz like then I'll probably have to go back and do it again, but like, maybe I should or maybe I should be doing this. And I feel like this is what's really helpful is it really is like very, I, I think this is a very good book for like the more a d d type brain because a ADHD is like work really well under pressure.

<00:15:17> Kayla Levin: Like once that adrenaline starts going and it's kind of saying like, we're just gonna decide in. That the cleaning part is gonna just be like that. So instead of feeling shame and guilt that she's not cleaning all the way up until five days before, she's just using that energy to go and like make her menus and make sure she's stocked up on her groceries and figure out who she's inviting and double checking that she still has like crock pot from last year.

<00:15:38> Kayla Levin: Right. And sh and then cuz especially knowing and if someone's listening to this and they know they work better under. You can decide in advance to do that and then own it and not have any shame over the fact that you work better under pressure. Just, you do need to leave yourself enough time to get it done, but five days is enough, I think, for most people in a house to, to, it's, it's short enough that, you know, you are under pressure.

<00:16:01> Kayla Levin: So like, I'm imagine, I'm thinking back to times where I would like wander into a bedroom and like spend an hour on like one dresser and then. Look around and get so overwhelmed and confused and then just be like, oh my gosh, I can't do this. And my husband would like literally have to come and he'd be like, we're just checking.

<00:16:19> Kayla Levin: And I'm telling you, I am somebody who has listened from the time I was a kallah to, you know, dust is not chometz. And your husband's not the Korbon Pesach. And your children now the carbon pay stock. I know everyone loves to say that every year and it's yes. And. Just because you know, dust isn't hametz, doesn't mean it gives you the ability to just walk into a room and check for Humate and stay totally focused on what the, what you're doing.

<00:16:44> Kayla Levin: It's so easy.

<00:16:44> Meira Spivak: I wasn't, but I wasn't always this way. I was that person and that cleans, and then my kids brought in Cheerios and I had to do it again. Mm-hmm. , I did that already. I did that also, it's not like I always started off in five days. I did not start off five days. I started off stressing. Yeah. But after like it's.

<00:16:59> Meira Spivak: Again, like you just said, the room and your kid comes to vent, Cheerio. And of course, you know, unless you're like Moshe Rabbeinu right, you probably lose it up some level and then, and then you'll have to do it again or some of it again. And then it's just so stressful. Like time for that. We don't have time for that.

<00:17:14> Meira Spivak: We don't have time. I'm not doing things again, remember, I hate wasting time. Right. I don't wanna do things twice, that's for sure. Not. And that's what I used to do until I was like, you know, there's a better way. Yeah.

<00:17:27> The Mindset Shift ---

<00:17:27> Kayla Levin: Okay. I love this. Um, I'm trying to think what else, what could we give people? Let's just give people a little bit of like a mindset shift.

<00:17:33> Kayla Levin: So wherever they are in their process right now, I think that one thing that I'm taking from this conversation is if you haven't finished figuring out just the technical planning, maybe just stop and do that, right? Make sure that that's wrapped up before you keep trying to like clean and then leave the plan to the last minute, and then you're gonna have five runs to the grocery.

<00:17:56> Meira Spivak: Yeah, I mean like, listen, the first thing I would say to do if you're at this point is like, just make a list of all the possible things you need to get done and, you know, you could use a book as an outline, but just, you know, think about it's buying new clothes or switching over clothes or tailoring or shatnez or all the possible things that come up.

<00:18:11> Meira Spivak: Mm-hmm. , you might order them, you might even put them in the calendars like this. I could do then this like, you know, this is for the Sunday thing, but like, you're gonna start Pesach cleaning and then your kids are gonna come home with pur.

<00:18:21> Kayla Levin: Well, they're not gonna hear this. This is gonna come out after, per, by the time they OK.

<00:18:25> Kayla Levin: By the time this one, you're right. If they're, if they're listening to it now, but I'm thinking, but by the time they come out, they're already feeling a little pressure here. Okay. Some of their friends, they're, they're either have already started or they feel like everyone else has started.

<00:18:37> Meira Spivak: Right. Okay. So number one, we're gonna give a speech.

<00:18:40> Meira Spivak: It's not a race. Okay, so that's the first thing. I'm really happy that your neighbors are ahead of you, and I'm really happy that they tell you. I have a joke with my sister, by the way. We have this running joke that like every time Tive, I'll call her like, it'll be like Erev. Pe, you know, and we'll be like, oh, so then you finish and she'll be like, I did, I, but you know, I was just, I had a little extra time.

<00:19:00> Meira Spivak: So like, I made the cheesecakes for Shavuos, you know, and we're always like, what Uping? Like as a joke about like, oh yeah, like I finished like the first day, you know? And we're always, oh, first day is like, I'm already on. So we're always doing it's, but it's, again, it's not a race, it's just, we all know it's silly.

<00:19:14> Meira Spivak: We have to tell. That's great. Like this person works, have a different job, you have more time on Sundays, they have a different type of family. Like we're just comparing ourselves and we're comparing apples to oranges. It's like literally not, it's so not helpful. Okay. It's not helpful. So if you're doing this, just stop.

<00:19:27> Meira Spivak: Cause we all know it's not helpful. But now again, make a list of the things and commit yourself to not stressing. That's the point of this. It's not that it's not gonna be work, it is, but commit yourself to not stress for more than you need to. Do the things you need to do before without stress. That's what I'm trying to do.

<00:19:45> Meira Spivak: I'm trying to get like mothers out there to, again, maybe yell at your kids a little bit less or just be a little bit happier, whatever it is that we're doing. Okay. And I'm just, let's just people lose it. I know it happens. It happens to everybody. Let's just, why? Why are we doing this to our families? Yeah.

<00:20:03> Meira Spivak: It's not the mitzvah. So again, that's what I would say. I would say take out your calendar. I prefer to use like a. Um, monthly calendar. Okay. So I would even like print out a calendar. I love doing print. If you wanna do a computer, that's fine too. And you're literally just making a list of your 20 tasks.

<00:20:17> Meira Spivak: One of them is, you know, cooking. So you might put cooking in the five days before, unless you have a Pesach kitchen. Again, that's your own decision. So, You're putting in little, you make the list of 20 items and you plug them in. So shopping, okay, so you might go shopping on Sunday, this Sunday and that's fine and but there might be four things that you didn't do because you didn't get them because your daughter's picky or because they didn't have the size or because a hundred reasons.

<00:20:42> Meira Spivak: So then you might need to reschedule that. Right. Whenever we have something that comes up, if we don't finish that job, we re. So that Sunday might mean we put it in for Monday, we might do it online shopping, or call someone or whatever we're gonna do. We reschedule that task, but we lay it out and we see, oh, okay, so on Wednesday I have to bring stuff to, I don't know, to get tailored.

<00:21:02> Meira Spivak: Okay, fine. Great. I still have to shoes. I didn't get shoes. I might even have a note on Thursday. I have time. On Thursday I have an order shoes. And just looking at it, when you have a visual of like, and it's like, oh, everything has a. I'm not gonna stress, but the main thing is that when you schedule something, same, by the way, I teach this, a lot of my meetings to, to, you know, it's a different woman.

<00:21:20> Meira Spivak: This the phone calendar. If you have one on your phone, depending on your, you know, own technical stuff or what you do. But if you do have a calendar on your phone and if you're using that or, and you have alarms going off all the time, I'm constantly setting alarms, constantly setting, meeting times. If I, that time passes and I couldn't follow up with this person, or I couldn't make that call, or I couldn't order the shoes, I'm rescheduling that I cannot.

<00:21:39> Meira Spivak: Tell you how important this one thing is, even if it's on your paper calendar. If you didn't finish the task, please put it in somewhere else. Put it all in, and then you see like, oh, I have another 20 days. Okay, I have to shop one day. But like, it's not evolving. Then you see like, okay, so every day I have one task.

<00:21:56> Meira Spivak: One day it's shoe shopping. One day is tailoring. You know, one day is buying the can goods one. It's fine. And by the way, and I also said, I've said this before, I one year wanted to buy the, the meat in advance or the chicken in advance, and I did not have my freezer cleaned yet, but I needed to get it in advance.

<00:22:14> Meira Spivak: I, I kid you not , I bought like a bought, I went and I like six times wrapped it. In garbage bags and I put them in my freezer and I was like, cuz I, I can't do this now. You know what I mean? But like, I also had to go shopping. I right, I wrap it up in black garbage bags like multiple times. Like, you know, like as if two times is not enough, probably one time is enough, but okay, like multiple times cause pe and I'm crazy fine and I'll put it somewhere and then when I'm ready to deal with it and when the, everything is clean.

<00:22:40> Meira Spivak: So I'm gonna then start taking it out. But just do it. Whatever works for you. You don't have to keep waiting and waiting. You could buy this stuff now and wrap it up. Wrap it up. If it makes you feel better to have the stuff in your house, so do it. But the point is just don't stress for longer than you need to.

<00:22:55> Kayla Levin: Yeah. Yeah. So the piece that I wanna add to what you're saying here is because I'm, I, I'm, I'm hearing already the, you know, the objection of like, but I don't even have time for one more thing.

<00:23:05> Kayla Levin: I barely have time for, you know, so the, the, these 20 days where this is the shoe shopping day and this is that. And one of the things that I like to remind people is like, If there are decisions that need to be made to make these things happen, it's when you're scheduling it. So then make the decision also, like don't just stick it on days and say, this doesn't make any sense.

<00:23:23> Kayla Levin: I don't have any concepts, any clue how this is gonna happen, but like, but we're just gonna pretend like I'm gonna get the shoes done that day and I'm gonna get the cans done this day. If you need an extra hour of babysitting so that you can run out and do the errand plan that then like as you're doing it right, put it down into your calendar.

<00:23:40> Kayla Levin: In a way that enables it to actually happen.

<00:23:44> What's The Alternative? ---

<00:23:44> Meira Spivak: You know what though? It's not really, when people say, oh, I can't even imagine doing this. Okay, fine. So if you're gonna tell me that at the end of the day you're not buying your kids' clothing and you will just wear the same old clothes that you have, which is fine, but if you really, at the end of the day go get it done.

<00:23:57> Meira Spivak: Hmm. So don't deny the fact that you, you are gonna do it anyway. Like if you are telling me again, I'm not buying any suits that need tailoring. Okay. I'm not buying anything that needs shot in this checking. Okay, fine. But if you have something on your, it's not you gonna say, I'm not buying any cans. Right.

<00:24:15> Meira Spivak: If you tell me now I can't put cans on my schedule. I can't imagine that. Okay, fine. Are you gonna go to pay yourself without any cans? No. Okay. So you're gonna find a time to do it. So like let's just do it like, you know what I mean? Like, let's not pretend that these things aren't gonna happen, like it's just worth it.

<00:24:28> Meira Spivak: Just put these things in. Again, I eat that. There's a book called Eat That Frog. I've never read the book, but I quote it all the time. Like you have to just kind of. Do the things you don't wanna do first and just get them done. And again, if it's someone else going, your family, it's giving your, your teenage daughter a shopping list or your husband or ordering from a store that delivers or whatever that is, that you need to get it done.

<00:24:49> Meira Spivak: But just saying like, I can't deal with it again. It's, it's like that hell, obviously it's not helpful that you're gonna end up at the end days before and you're like, oh wait, I wanna go cooking. I don't have cans. Right? And then you. Right. Listen,

<00:25:03> Kayla Levin: I, yeah, I think that there's like a tendency to like wait until it's, and, and I'm not saying for everyone, but I've seen this, I've done this for sure personally, but I also have seen this, some of my clients, like we wait until we feel bad about asking for the extra help that we need, right?

<00:25:19> Kayla Levin: So let's say I do need to go take out my kids, my girls to go get an outfit and like I don't see where that's gonna go. And like I just have this like low levels of conscious discomfort with saying, I really need your. You know, like I don't, I don't reach out for help. I don't ask for it. So then we wait instead till it's like a disaster and I'm panicking and I'm freaking out.

<00:25:38> Kayla Levin: And then he's like, Hey, whoa, what's wrong? And then we're like, well, I need to be getting the girls' clothes. I'm like, you know who's supposed to be, no one's helping me. . Instead of just like, yeah, we can preempt all that. Right? We don't have to go to that place. It was a really interesting article recently, the Cal Newport wrote for the New York Times where he was talking about how thought workers.

<00:25:58> Kayla Levin: Basically when they did a self-evaluation, they were all taking on about 20% too much work. But all of these people decide when they say no. Like there's always more work that they could take on. And they're the ones that decide like when their workload is false. So he's saying like, is it possible that people only start saying no once they're already overwhelmed?

<00:26:16> Kayla Levin: Like, what if we just started saying no a little bit before we were overwhelmed, ? Or even once we are over.

<00:26:23> Meira Spivak: Not always says, my husband always says like, I walk a fine line between being completely overwhelmed and totally bored. So it's like a very hard, like, you know, when you're, make that decision, but you know, but also I want people to ask themselves like, how's that been serving you?

<00:26:36> Meira Spivak: So what you've done in the past is you just, you know, you don't wanna ask for help and then you get overwhelmed cause no one's helping you. And then you probably lose it at someone and you start crying. So how's that been serving you? You wanna contin, it's fine if you wanna continue like that, if that.

<00:26:51> Meira Spivak: Healthy and good, and that's something you don't mind, that's great. But if that hasn't been working, unless you do something different, nothing will change. Yep. So unless you commit again, maybe it's just your husband or just your daughter, it's sitting down and making a family meeting. Okay. I don't know what it is for you, but unless you do something different.

<00:27:08> Meira Spivak: That's right. Albert Einstein's definition of insanity, you're expecting different results with the same behavior. Yeah. You need to do something different if you want things to change. Yeah. If you've been not asking for help and it hasn't been working and you're not managing so great, are you really a superhero?

<00:27:24> Meira Spivak: Does anyone think, wow, she's amazing. You're not managing. So what is people? What are people thinking? They're thinking, wow, she's so amazing. She's not managing. They're thinking, well, she doesn't ever act together. It's not what they're thinking. You are the person that you know you're capable, and we all need help in certain areas.

<00:27:38> The Working Genius Model ---

<00:27:38> Meira Spivak: It's not a weakness as for help, it's actually acknowledging the fact that we work better as a. I actually did a, I actually ran a workshop recently, it's called Based on, I don't know if you're familiar with Patrick Lencho. He has a lot of different books, but he has a something called the Working Genius Model, and he talks about how in order to get work done, this is actually really relevant in order to get work done.

<00:27:56> Meira Spivak: There's six types of work that are involved in every project. There's someone, he actually has an acronym called Widget, where someone is the ones, or he's the person that, or she's the person that's thinking. It's gotta be a better way. Like why are we doing it like this? Why? You know? And the inventor is the person who's like, I have a much better way.

<00:28:13> Meira Spivak: The discerner is like, I don't know if that's such a good idea. Like, that sounds really optimistic, but it's not realistic. Okay. Then we have the galvanizer who's like, come on, let's do this. We can get it going. We have the, uh, enabler who just helps and it's like, I'll do whatever you say, whatever you need.

<00:28:26> Meira Spivak: I'm a team player. And then there's the someone with Tenacity who just like gets the job done and, and each of. Every area of work, you kind of need all these different people. And it's amazing. They have a test online, you could see where you are. But it's fascinating. And he actually says that him and his wife would actually, they, none of them had this gift of tenacity, which is the person that finishes the job.

<00:28:48> Meira Spivak: Mm. And one day he didn't realize it until he came home and their electricity had been shut off cuz nobody wanted to pay the bills. Cause it was like an annoying job that like someone just had to take care of. Yeah. And he said, Now that we were aware of like what our strengths were, we knew who to hire.

<00:29:05> Meira Spivak: Yeah. Like I didn't need to hire someone to think, you know, be the person that's innovative. He's like, I'm innovative. Yeah. I didn't need the person who's gonna get everyone excited. Like my wife could get everyone excited, but there was no one that wanted to like do the details. Yeah. And unless you know that you think like I'm just, I don't know, I'm just incapable.

<00:29:21> Meira Spivak: Like I'm just, I'm just the loser. Like, I can't do everything. I'm not, why are some people seem like they could do every single thing. It's not what it is, it's that they might have strengths that, look, they might be the person that gets a job finished, right? So if someone might, I, I'm the type of person, I'm the person that, I'm the finisher, but I'm missing a lot of skills in the beginning.

<00:29:39> Meira Spivak: Mm-hmm. . So I might, I'm so busy finishing, finishing that. I'll do things just to do things and sometimes I'm doing things that don't even make sense cuz I didn't even think about the steps in the beginning. But I'm just a do. Right? I do, I get things done. That's really nice. But it's not necessarily efficient and it's not necessarily helpful.

<00:29:57> Meira Spivak: but the person, the beginning who's like thinking about things and taking the time and processing, they're gonna do things intentionally. They're gonna have a hard time getting it done. But the tool lesson, we work together. So if you know the people in your family and you think about who's the person that's just like the chip in at any moment, ready to help, you're gonna call in that person during that five days.

<00:30:15> Meira Spivak: Like, I need your help. Right? Like the person who's like the innovative thinker. If you're gonna start getting enough to help you. Those people, they have one pill, they appeal one potatoes, they're like up to lunch and they're sitting around and you're like,

<00:30:24> Kayla Levin: or they're like, I have a ba. Oh my gosh, I just thought of this dessert that we should make.

<00:30:27> Kayla Levin: That's such a good

<00:30:27> Meira Spivak: idea. Oh, let's totally, let's go to the store right now. Such a good idea, especially with teenage girls like mom, aren't you? Hell, and you're like a seven layer, you're like, Um, yeah, it's 30 seconds after it took like seven hours after you woke up at like 1130. Thank you so much. And you're just like, I just need the person who's gonna peel 50 pounds of potatoes.

<00:30:45> Meira Spivak: Right? But like, we're looking to the people that don't have these, we call 'em geniuses and you know, and instead there might be their frustrations. They we're asking 'em to do the jobs that aren't right for them. And instead of everyone knowing where they contribute, we're looking at other people and saying, well, that person looks like they have it all together.

<00:30:59> Meira Spivak: It could be they have it all together, but it could be they're just utilizing everyone's strengths. So like, look at the people in your family. Look at the people you have and say like, who is the kid that is like the one that just helps? Right? That person. Let's save them, let's save them Somewhere in that five days.

<00:31:14> Meira Spivak: Who's the person that's like the creative, whatever good a month before they could start making like pe place maths. Okay. That nobody needs, right? Like, let them do that before, like that's their genius. Let them, let them spend the time, let them do the PE shopping. Let them do the, the let them take the go.

<00:31:28> Meira Spivak: Clothes shopping. Okay? Like let them do these things. If you have an older daughter who's like super creative, whatever. Maybe if you want it, they can make a dessert that's super. But like give it to them like in the right time instead of feeling frustrated that like you're just wanting 'em to peel potatoes and they're busy.

<00:31:42> Meira Spivak: Like, I wanna like arrange the entire theme table, you know, like the, whether it's the tablescape and you're like, heart potatoes are not peeled, so you have a choice right now. Either you're just like frustrated with that child and then like they are so not helpful, which they're not. Or you could be. They are helpful in certain things and let's use them using them in the wrong place.

<00:32:04> Meira Spivak: Yes. And it's gonna be frustrating. Yes. So

<00:32:07> Kayla Levin: I always give this example with, cuz this comes up a ton in marriage, right? Yeah. Like you're giving an example of the children. But what happens so often is like, whatever our strength in strength is, we take that as a given. That that's like, oh, people just are good at finishing things or people just are good at thinking, you know, uh, whatever the thing is.

<00:32:25> Kayla Levin: And then when our husband isn't good at the exact same thing, we're like, well, he's defective. This is so annoying. Totally. And we keep trying to get him to do the same thing as if that's baseline. But what you're saying I love so much is to say like, it's not baseline. Whatever it is that you're good at.

<00:32:38> Kayla Levin: Just cuz you're good at it doesn't mean that that's like a normal human way of functioning. That means that's your strength. And if you're so busy waiting, I always say like, imagine Bill Gates is starting this new company. Is he gonna go look for a clone of himself that has all the exact same strengths as him?

<00:32:52> Kayla Levin: No, he's gonna look for someone who compliments him. So if you're always looking your husband and comparing to what you're good, good at, you're just gonna be missing so much. And like it would be such a waste if the two of you were just completely identical. So I love this example here too.

<00:33:08> Meira Spivak: Yeah. And the whole thing with marriage is like you're working to appreciate that the person brings to the table.

<00:33:13> Meira Spivak: And especially just at a time of Pesach cleaning when everything is super stressful, right? And you just want someone like, who's gonna like, peel potatoes and then they're busy, you know? I don't know, maybe they are helping clean the car or maybe they're not. But instead of being frustrated, appreciating, you know, for when they bring, but again, it's utilizing the people.

<00:33:31> Meira Spivak: That'd be frustrated that you're, you know, again, certain kids or, or your spouse is like good at certain things, just what they are good for. Let them help in that way because they're not changing anyway, so let's appreciate what they bring to the table.

<00:33:41> Kayla Levin: Yes. This is like parenting. This is everything. I love this.

<00:33:45> Kayla Levin: And it also puts the, the, you know, the mom, the wife in the head space of being an intentional manager of her home, which is a very, um, empowering place to. Right. Like, it's not like, oh, I've, I, I accept that my husband's not good at that. Like, okay, fine, I've, I've accepted him. Like that feels so yucky. And we like, we resist that naturally and we should, cuz it's not, it doesn't feel good.

<00:34:10> Kayla Levin: That's not a good way of approaching it. But if, if I'm saying like, no, I am the, I'm enlightened now. My ears be back enlightened me. Now I understand how to look at people and look at my home and look at my wi my husband and my children. It, it's, that's a very empowering place to be. Like, I'm thinking smart

<00:34:26> Meira Spivak: about my.

<00:34:27> Meira Spivak: Exactly, like, why would you wanna look at someone and say, they're not like me? That's not the goal. And you know what? You don't want them to look at you like that. Right. So if, if my husband's more of the innovator, whatever, and he's like, oh, she's just so, you know, we don't want that. Because if you wanted me to be like him and I wanted him to be like me, that just would be obviously not helpful.

<00:34:49> Meira Spivak: Right, right. Yeah.

<00:34:51> How We Show Up on Pesach ---

<00:34:51> Kayla Levin: Okay. Amazing. And, and can you give us, You've talked about the importance of the nap. I think that was really critical. Any other things that we wanna keep in mind, let's say during those last five days or however many days we give to the like real execution of making Pesa?

<00:35:09> Meira Spivak: I think it's just really setting your eye on the goal.

<00:35:14> Meira Spivak: Your goal is, you know, again, to get the piece. So that means you might have your list. You know, I talk a lot about repeating, by the way. I remember the year that I. One second. The second Seder, we're in Gallas. Okay? It's the same menu now, . I'm like, why am I doing this? Like we have the same menu. No one eats at the Seder.

<00:35:32> Meira Spivak: I mean, people eat, but like nobody's interested in like the food. It's like one in the morning. I have the same menu for both the Seders and if I'm cooking and I wanna make this many potato cooks, this many this. And I want you to think about what's important. Yes. So the shade, the Seder should be nice.

<00:35:49> Meira Spivak: Yes, it. Does that mean that you should be like falling apart at the expense of it? No. The goal is that you come to the Seder with a smile and you know, just like, again, with your family, happy. And I speak a lot, I do actually parenting classes is I have a class, had a parent at the Seder and I actually have people like practice smiling as their kids spill grapes on them.

<00:36:13> Meira Spivak: Mm-hmm. like you just bought your. And it's, I don't know why you bought white, but maybe it's white and or their white shirt, right? Because for sure their white shirt like this, it's all red by the end. But like you're sitting there and they're just spilling and they're fighting. They're fighting at the Cedar, and you are trying to impart like this, this is the most important meal of the year.

<00:36:29> Meira Spivak: Like, we're so happy to be here. Okay, you're exhausted, they're spilling on you. This one kid's crying, they're fighting and like your husband, you're trying to like, and he's giving you the eye of like, can you please deal with the kids? Or I could like run the Seder in the middle of my. Like, could you, like, you get the look, you know, the look of like, not, not the look of death, but like, like hurry up.

<00:36:47> Meira Spivak: You know what I'm saying? And you get this look and you're just like, I don't even ca you literally need to practice smiling because like, this is honestly what you are giving over right now is the most important thing you could give over two of your kids the entire of everything. Of like, we are omni, we've taken Adam try.

<00:37:02> Meira Spivak: This is the message that we need to give our kids. And if you only give one message over the night, and if you don't look like you're happy to be there, if you look like you'd rather be in bed. That's a real, real haval. So I want you to just take a look. When you're preparing your feeling, there are days you're gonna feel like a schmatta.

<00:37:19> Meira Spivak: It is really hard. Even during the five days, there are, by the end of the day, I'm like, I can't stand like I'm hilarious. Like I don't even know how many like cooks and whatever I've made, even if I'm organized, even if I'm on task. It's really hard. But your goal is that you finish cooking, you finish cleaning, you come to the Seder like a mench, and I don't care if you're faking it, fake it till you make it that you are excited to be at the Seder.

<00:37:43> Meira Spivak: And no matter what, you're going to make a choice. I actually just got back, uh, last night at 1130 at night, I get back my Israel, I took teens, uh, to check out seminaries in Yeshiva. Okay, so I'm on this trip and. I did not, I didn't sleep. I, I, I, I, I'm back on Portland time, and which is 10 hours because I was so off schedule that it didn't even matter.

<00:38:03> Meira Spivak: Okay. So everything, but I'm sitting there and like, I can't tell you. And then the flight got this and delayed. And it took us, it took me from time I left my house 38 hours. Okay. To get there at thrill. That's not, but I told, and people said, why you're so positive? I'm like, I'm not a positive person, by the way, just by nature.

<00:38:18> Meira Spivak: And I said, I made a choice that no matter what was gonna happen, I was gonna smile. Mm. Because it wasn't about like the, the journey, like journey, really, it's about where we're going, what we're trying to accomplish. And no matter what happened, we had this incident here and this here, and then they had po a negative experience here.

<00:38:36> Meira Spivak: And this person, guys, come on. Let's just, we're gonna find every, we don't, you know, everything's positive. Every challenge is an opportunity. And I made a choice. I want you to make a choice. I want you to choose that this Seder experience is going to be amazing. I don't, again, I don't care if you're faking it, you're gonna set yourself positively.

<00:38:53> Meira Spivak: You're gonna make sure you have a nice outfit. You're gonna make sure you nap, you're gonna, but keep it in mind again, when it's like that last thing, I should make that extra dessert and you're falling, you're gonna say no to that dessert, not just because I know I shouldn't. It's too much. Because the number one priority is that you show up for this seat and you are rest.

<00:39:12> Meira Spivak: And you are so happy to be there, and you have the patience to deal with every annoying thing happen. That will definitely happen. That will definitely happen at the theater. Like you're buying an outfit literally to wear for free hours, and then first, like I'm saying, like this, it like, you're not gonna, and that's what you're doing and that's the right thing.

<00:39:33> Meira Spivak: Mm.

<00:39:34> Kayla Levin: Amazing. Thank you so much. This is Yeah, exactly what we need at this time of year, and so I'm just so grateful that you made, it was not easy for you to make time to come on here, so I really appreciate it.

<00:39:44> Meira Spivak: Thank you. So it was a pleasure. It really. Thank you.

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