Ep. 97 - When Your Husband Skips Minyan

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Subscribe: Apple Podcasts | Google Podcasts | RSS(Heads up: I'm calling this one a #Jewsode because it is PARTICULARLY specific to the religious Jewish world. All are welcome to listen and apply as you like, of course, but since the content is inherently about Jewish life, this episode may be less generally applicable than usual.) I've had several requests, especially during COVID, to talk about husbands who are skipping minyan (prayers), not going to shul or praying at all, or otherwise not doing what you expected in the spiritual realm. In this episode, I'm taking you through a simple exercise to help you identify why you're feeling triggered by his behavior and get some space so you aren't so reactive. So grab some paper :)  At the end of the episode, I also discuss the concept of a woman's olam haba being tied up in her husband's learning and how to not let that idea make you go totally bonkers when he slacks off, and also how to pursue your values in a way that's truly effective and doesn't generate all this stress and anxiety.

** My husband pointed out that I didn't translate all the words! So here's your glossary (and some helpful articles) if you need it.

minyan - prayer quorum

daven - pray 

olam haba - the world to come

Shacharis (or Shacharit) - morning prayer Want to take this work further? I would love to coach you inside my coaching program, How to Glow. It's a no-commitment monthly program where you can get coached every week and be part of an amazing community of women. Ready to give it a try? Join today at kaylalevin.com/coaching

Transcript

0:00

Episode 97 when your husband skips minion.

0:16

Welcome to the first year married podcast.

Where we get real about building the marriage of your dream.

I'm marriage coach Kayla Levin.

And I take newly married and engaged women from anxious insecure, too confident and connected through practical tips, real-life inspiration, and more than a little self-awareness along the way.

0:38

Hello, my friends.

Welcome back.

I know we've been slowing it down a little bit over here and fym world.

We're doing our best.

It's a life has been crazy, but I love you guys for all sticking it out.

And so many people telling me that they're using the off weeks, when nothing comes out to go back and listen to previous episodes.

0:57

Highly recommend everyone.

Listen to the first five.

If you haven't heard them yet, those will give you some of my main key core points and tools that I use with my clients.

Okay, so what's this episode all about?

This one has been requested by so many of you, but first of all, it's such an honor always to hear what you want to hear.

1:15

The podcast.

And so I'm very happy to do this and it's not just about when your husband's skip Minyan, Okay?

We're talking about anything in which you had some kind of Ideal or hope for what your marriage is going to look like, what kind of husband he was going to be specifically Italy.

If it relates to your values, or your religion and whether it's the he stops davening, he cuts down on his learning, he skips minyan.

1:36

He starts going to McDonald's and getting bacon, cheeseburgers, whatever it is that he's doing.

I'm not talking about anything that is Is directly affecting you, of course of like, you know, he's treating you in a way that is abusive or he's hurting someone or anything.

1:54

Obviously, of that category is not were discussing.

We're discussing, is you have some kind of vision or goal of what you thought he should look?

Like, your husband would look like what he would be doing, what would be spiritual, what would be good and valuable and he's not doing it.

And first of all, I just want to say this is really common right now and sometimes That's the most important thing for you to hear from me.

2:17

There are a lot of women telling me that covid has really been a big impact on their husbands, being able to motivate themselves to dive in normally to dive in at all to, you know, he's dropping his learning, whatever.

The thing is, a lot of guys are are struggling, very seriously with this lack of structure with this lack of, you know, whatever the momentum that he had going.

2:41

That was taken away by covid.

And so, first of all, that part of you that wants to completely Panic that you're the only one and you don't want to tell anyone, guess what?

It's really normal.

Right now, what I'm going to talk about today is your approach to this how this affects you, how it doesn't have to affect you and how we can show up in this relationship.

3:00

Because guess what, we're always going to not be exactly what our spouse wants, right?

He's going to do something.

That's not exactly what you had in mind.

You're going to do things.

It's not exactly what he wanted.

And I know this feels different because it feels very serious and important.

Just because we're talking about how long he was supposed to be a learning or diving or all of these things that we're going to address that as well.

3:22

Okay?

So first of all, let's give an example.

Let's say I want you to just identify what is the actual thing that you feel like is bothering you.

So let's say that your husband Davens Shachris at home.

Okay.

So this is one guy's not going to minyan.

He used to go to minyan like clockwork, okay?

3:38

I want you to try and figure out when that happened.

What did you feel?

Because depending on the way, you're interpreting that the story that you have about like, what you're making it mean that he's diving at home.

This could be anything from anxiety or fear to like, judgment even discussed.

3:55

Don't try to be refined good right now.

Like yes, of course, there's a part of you that's understanding.

There's a part of you that's compassionate.

That's not the part that's bothering you.

So I need you to get really clear on the emotion that you're having this the negative emotion.

And if it's discussed, it's okay.

4:12

Okay, once you've identified that emotion.

So what's the fact of the situation?

My husband Davened Shachris at home or my husband told me he's dropping his last seder or whatever the thing is.

Yeah.

Identify what that emotion is and then that's going to give you an ability to figure out what was the bridge between the fact and my emotional response because the truth is, the fact didn't create your emotional response, right?

4:37

Those of you that have been listening to the podcast for a while, know this?

Him Davening Shachris at home, did not make you feel judgmental.

But when you had a meaning behind that of he could be as simple as he shouldn't be davening at home.

He should be davening in Shul right?

4:53

As soon as you add that meaning onto the situation, that's what's going to create the emotion for you.

So, step one identify, the fact step to figure out what your emotion was in that situation and now step 3, figure out the bridge.

What did you make?

The fact mean the generated that For you.

5:12

I know that at the same time you have thoughts.

Like I know it's not the most important thing.

I know he's a really good guy or I know I shouldn't be judging him, that's irrelevant, it's good that you know that it's very helpful that, you know, that that will get you.

That is what gets you listening to this episode and wanting to work on it but we get so scared sometimes.

5:33

So many of the women that I work with, you were so scared to identify the negative thoughts.

Like, maybe you're thinking, like, he's a total bum, I don't know, but if you're so scared to identify the negative thought, what actually happens is you Empower them.

You make them so much stronger.

5:50

They completely run the show if you don't stop and look them in the eye and the way to look them in the eye is to take out a piece of paper and to write down on your paper.

All those negative thoughts that you're having, you can absolutely crumple it up and throw it away.

You can throw it in the fire.

You can shred it, whatever you need to do afterwards, but if you don't get them down on that. /.

6:09

They're still running the show, you can't really argue those thoughts in your head.

You've got to get them down in front of you.

First recently a client told me that when I gave her this exercise, she was worried to write down all those negative thoughts because she felt, she'd be empowering them.

She'd be giving them too much air time and it's really the opposite.

6:29

Because as I said, if we can't even look at the thoughts, if we're just sort of like shoving them back further further, further back in the back of our mind, it doesn't mean that they're not still car.

Causing all those negative emotions for us.

Okay.

So you're actually disempowering those thoughts by putting them down on paper, and you don't need to do this.

6:48

This is not going to be a reflection of who you are as a person.

No one's going to be checking this paper.

No one wants to check our.

You just as grateful as you are.

Critical know all your grateful thoughts.

Do another paper on all your grateful thoughts if you want to.

But this paper we want to know.

Where are these negative feelings coming from?

7:04

What are all my judgments?

What are all my complaints?

What's all the?

What are all the negative thoughts that are Creating this issue for me, that's coming up, okay?

Because again, whether you've got them down in front of you or not and more likely, if not those emotions, those thoughts are going to be creating negative emotions and those negative emotions are causing you to behave in a way.

7:24

That's not how you want to be behaving.

Hey, if you're feeling resentful because you're thinking he's a total bum for not going to show.

You're not going to be able to show up and be supportive and understanding because you can't when you're feeling resentful.

So you have to pull that thought out because until you do, you think the reason you feel resentful is because you didn't go to sheol and you're wrong.

7:45

The only reason you feel resentful is because you think he should be going.

You think it means something about him that he's not going.

Okay, we get so busy in what he should be doing and what you shouldn't be doing.

That you can't focus on all of the stuff he should be doing and have any brain space left over for what you should be doing, okay?

8:09

I like to think of it as it's like one or the other, I'm all worried about my husband's doing and what you shouldn't be doing and judging all that.

I'm not spending any time on how I'm showing up.

So you get to choose this, you get to choose which one you're going to focus on.

Do I want to focus on how he should be acting?

8:25

Which I have zero control over, or do I want to focus on how I should be acting?

Which I have complete control over?

I can choose it, but you have to be conscious, okay?

You have to understand what's going on.

You have to be willing to write out your thoughts.

You have to be willing to look at them and then I have a chance to ask myself, okay, my brain has been very busy with, he should be going in as bad that he's not going in.

8:47

This is a big problem and I need to know what ver, when I can redirect my brain to is, what kind of wife do, I want to be How do I handle it, when someone in my family is struggling?

How do I want to show up in a situation like that?

It's going to happen again.

How about what does support look like to me?

9:05

How do I want to support the people that I love?

Now, I know that there's a voice for a lot of you that's like, but Kayla, this is very bad.

Like I can't coach myself on it because this is a very big problem.

9:21

My husband needs to be doing this thing and I want you to know that when you go to that place.

I got it but when you go to that place you're going into your lower brain.

You're going into that fight or flight or freeze type of part of your brain and what it's going to make.

9:36

You want to do is to control and manipulate your husband.

Okay.

I want to tell you two reasons, that that's not a good thing.

Number one.

You won't do it right because there's no right.

There's no correct way to control and manipulate.

9:53

Your husband are there better ways to communicate with him?

Yes.

Can we understand him better?

Absolutely.

Why do I have Allison Armstrong on the podcast now twice, right?

Because she helps us to understand the differences.

She helps us to communicate in a way that is effective, but never from a place of, because I need to get something from you.

10:11

I want you to treat me better.

I want you to be nicer to me, whatever, right?

It's always coming from coming from a place.

Of his Mo his way of being is just as valid as mine, and it's just as much on me to understand him as it is on him to understand me.

So number one, don't control manipulate him because you won't do it right.

10:31

Number two, don't do it because you're married to this guy.

Which means that at the very least, we want to be cultivating, respect for him and if I'm so busy and what can I get out of him and how can I get them to act the way that I want, how do I get him back to chakras?

10:48

As if I am, the person in control of his birth, he robbed his free will.

So, I am turning him into an infant in my own eyes.

Okay, so I have to be so careful that when I go there it's not treating him with just the basic respect that we want to be treating another human being.

11:08

So, I know you're asking right now.

So, what do I do now, right?

Let's say, I've identified that the reason I'm feeling super judgy about my husband is because I think that he's a total bomb that he didn't go to show, okay?

But all that actually happened is he Davened at home.

So then I want to go through the rest of the model and if you've been listening to the podcast, you know, this is from Brooke Castillo and I've used this model before, but once we have a feeling, we're going to look.

11:33

And we're going to look to see what our actions are that come from that feeling like when I'm feeling resentful, maybe I criticize him, maybe I think very judgmental thoughts.

I start collecting evidence of all the other things that he's not doing the he should be doing.

Maybe I kind of like stopped.

11:49

Like I stall out on some of the stuff I'm supposed to be doing, I spend more time on social media.

I sort of And follow some of my schedule.

I don't really focus at work right?

And then I want to see like what's the result of all this that I'm creating with that?

Thought that he's a bum, right?

12:06

That's my thought and it's making me feel resentful and that's making me slack off at work, slack off at home, not really connected and think all these judgy thoughts about him think about everything that's wrong with him.

Guess what?

I'm being.

I'm being a bum, right?

Like 100%.

12:22

I am just totally slacking off in my life.

I'm slacking off in my, in my responsibility to be positive and respectful.

I'm slacking off in my work at home.

I'm sucking off of my work at my job.

Totally slacking off on all of those things because I'm busy in that judgment which creates all that resentment for me.

12:38

So, ideally I want you to see all of that, if nothing else, definitely make sure you understand the bridge between the facts and the feeling which is the thought that you have, but if you're able to go All the way through and really examine your behavior and examine what you're creating then your brain will be ready to let go of that thought a little bit because you'll have made a connection between.

12:59

When I judge my husband for acting in a way, I start acting that way when I see that in black and white in front of me on the paper, then that thought is so much less compelling because I know exactly what it's going to create.

It's going to create me showing up in a way that I don't like, okay?

13:15

So then we just want to start thinking of questions that I asked you before.

How do I want to be showing up as his wife?

How do I want to be showing up as his partner?

How do I want to be showing up as a person, who loves someone who's struggling?

What does that look like to me?

What a support look like to me?

13:31

What do I think support?

Looks like to him.

Hey, and then when you have that clear in your head, what you want to be doing about the situation, and this ties in a little bit with the episode that I did last about grief because if I'm still busy resisting the real Either he doesn't go to show for chakras.

13:51

He should be doing.

It isn't okay.

I'm all busy there.

I can't move anywhere else.

It's like your brain is, in like a, it's like a computer that just like froze, right?

Because you're so busy and resistance that you can't experience any of the emotions about it.

14:07

So, okay, so he's not going, maybe that's sad for you.

Maybe you want to take a minute, take a couple days, feel sad, he's not doing what he thought he would be doing your husband.

Stop learning and he's going to go to work.

And you had an idea that you'd be learning, he'd be a learning for years and years.

Take some time and feel sad about that.

14:25

You can't go there and go back and listen to the grief episode.

If you haven't heard it yet, and if this is speaking to you, you can't go to the processing, the new reality and to grieving it and feeling sad for it.

If you're so busy pushing against it with resistance and he shouldn't be doing this, Hey, so he is doing it.

14:43

What now how do I want to show up?

Okay, once I've got that clear I can start to figure out for myself, okay?

How do I have to feel if I want to show up like that?

Maybe I need to feel don't use the word accepting.

The reason I don't want you to use the word accepting is because we only accept things that are bad, okay?

15:02

And you're just building in negativity if you do it this way, But if I want to give him my attention, if I want to give him encouragement.

If I want to really spend my time thinking thoughts about like empathetic thoughts about understanding his reality and his world.

If I want to be asking him questions and truly listening to the answers, getting a glimpse into his internal world.

15:25

I probably need to feel loving and curious not accepting.

Right.

So it might not be loving and curious for you.

And those might not be the examples of how exactly you picture yourself showing up, but take a second and, and write it down or voice, note, yourself, and listen, back to the voice, no, right?

15:44

What does that look like?

And then What feelings, get you acting that way.

And then once you know what those feelings are, you can figure out.

Well what do I need to think?

If I want to think I want to be loving and curious.

I might need to think something, like I want to understand everything that goes on with him.

16:02

I want to understand my husband.

I want to be there for my husband.

What am I missing that?

He's going through right now.

Okay, those kinds of thoughts are and it's not, I'm not in there arguing.

Oh, no, he's not such a bummer other guys.

16:17

I do not, like, I don't need to argue at the level of my original thought.

This is a completely different direction, right?

It will take me in a completely different energy and allow me to show up the way that I want to show up.

But again, you can't skip to this part.

16:32

All of you who are trying to skip to this part, I see you.

You can't skip here until you do the first part and I know you don't want to do the first part.

Do you got to do it?

Okay.

And if you can't do it you need to book a session with me and we need to do the, I'll make you do it session, because you can't get in.

16:51

You'll just keep trying some of you just keep trying to just get to the new thought, just jump to the new thought, I don't care how smart you are.

I don't care how much we talked about self development in your high school.

I don't care how great your Seminary teachers.

Are you have to spend time understanding where your brain is now not from place of judgment, but from a place of curiosity and acceptance and self-love because Let's do this brain, stink.

17:13

Thoughts that aren't always optimal and aren't always holy and it's okay.

But if I'm not even willing to look at it, I cannot move on.

It will keep running the show.

Okay.

Hopefully I've spoken strongly at this point.

Not that I've had so many of you at this point.

17:31

Get on a call with me.

Like I've been listening to the podcast.

I just want the new thought.

No you have to do the first half first.

Okay.

Then you've got yourself to the new thought.

Okay.

Now, do you have that?

This is the process, okay?

17:48

I want to address two questions, specific questions that came up about this issue in particular, So, the number one is, what about everything, we learn about how we can motivate our husbands, what about everything that we understand about points.

They say, men play Four Points we want positivity, right?

18:06

Women tend to be more driven by curate criticism and avoiding criticism and men are more driven by like the win the success, right?

A big piece of what I do with my clients is the glow piece of it, which is enabling ourselves to be able to really glow with the accepted that the happiness and the love.

18:23

And the just All the mushy goodness of what our husbands are providing for us because for many of us that's so hard to do.

So, where do they play into this?

They are a piece of how we want to show up for her husband's leaving.

18:39

If I understand that, what motivates my husband Is my enthusiasm my pride in him?

My gratitude for what?

He's providing.

Then I want to be a proud enthusiastic and grateful wife.

18:56

Not.

So he'll go back to show.

Hey, and we have a wonderful metaphor for this in Jewish thought, which is his jobless, okay?

We believe that you put out the work and the effort that you put out, and the result of all of that is not tied in directly into our effort.

19:16

I might go to work and put in lots of effort and I might get no clients, but that might come back to me in another way.

Or maybe I wasn't supposed to do it but it doesn't.

Excuse me from the the effort that I have to put in, okay, and I think it's the same in our marriages, meaning if I focus on showing up as a grateful and loving and proud wife, which I can do, which all of you can do because all those emotions come from your thinking, I'm not doing it because I need him to go to school so I can feel better.

19:46

You hear that?

I have to first do the first half of this whole podcast.

The first three quarters of the spinal, see how long it goes.

The first bit of this podcast, I have to understand where my brain is now.

I have to work on where I want my brain to be in the future.

I have to separate myself from thinking that my negative feelings are coming from him, not going to show or whatever, obviously, replace, whatever situation is for you and I have to take responsibility that all those negative feelings are coming from my own brain from what I'm making it mean.

20:15

Hey and when I'm not blaming him then, I don't need him to change right now.

I don't need him to urgently get back to shul because I realized that him going to show isn't what's causing my negative feelings.

So now I'm not trying to manipulate him.

And now I'm redirecting on who I want to be and that's where the Gratitude and the pride and the enthusiasm and all those good things come in.

20:42

Will they by and large and courage your husband and whatever he's struggling with?

Yes, if your husband never got any points for going to show and now all of a sudden he's only getting negativity that he's not going.

Is that a factor from what we understand of male psychology?

Absolutely right.

20:59

And so that might just be a wake-up call for you to be like maybe I need to add some more points.

I need to spend more time in positivity for all the things that he is doing.

Maybe I never even said to him, what it means to me for him to go.

Maybe I was too busy understand.

Lee feeling anxious because I actually needed his help right then and it was hard to send him out, right?

21:18

All of this, of course, understandable and human.

But sometimes it's a really good wake-up call for us that if our husband doesn't see the value of something, have I been expressing that value but again, the most important piece of this and I know this is a new ones if I'm not doing the points to get him back to show.

Right?

21:35

I'm doing the points because that's my his childless.

We even started this game.

Literally, like, my house.

I asked my husband to do something, and he was like, how many points do I get for it?

And I remembered how he had said this, and I don't know if this is when I interviewed him on the podcast, or if we did a video for Instagram at one point where he was saying with, with like video games, it doesn't, it's not like there's like a limit of how many points you can get, right?

22:00

Like, he's like, why are you guys all giving us like 15 points for doing something?

Like, give us twenty thousand points?

Like, who cares it?

Just Racks up, it just gets more and more fuel in the tank more and more motivation and excitement for him to keep earning those points, right?

22:15

So like we play this game where I was like, oh my gosh, take out the garbage.

That he's like 40 million points like 140 million.

Forget it.

It's 60 million points like go for it, right?

The more enthusiasm, the more excitement there's no limit.

He's never going to cash it in.

It's not like a tit-for-tat type of thing where it's like, well, you were so excited that I took out the garbage.

22:32

Now, are you making my favorite dinner?

I don't know.

Like that's not how it works.

And so yes by and large the more enthusiastic.

I am about something the more likely it's going to encourage him and give him the energy to want to pursue that thing.

22:49

If all I ever do is criticize, the way he is with the baby is probably can avoid being around the baby, right?

Maybe it's not that black and white but it'll happen.

But again, when I come back to doing this, I want it to always be coming from a place of because this is the kind of wife that I want to be.

This is how I want to show up in my relationship.

23:06

Not from a place of like, he better start parenting more.

Now, I'm going to do points, so that he'll behave according to the way that, I think a husband should behave.

Do you hear the difference?

Because it's really critical.

It's a really, really important difference, even though it sounds like the new ones, it's huge.

23:21

And in terms of the entire tone of the relationship, Okay.

So the other question that came in was someone was sending me a request for this episode.

Was, you know, she went to beit yaakov type school and it was really drilled into her.

She learned this lesson of how a woman's Olam Haba and her husband's Torah learning are intricately connected.

23:42

Now, in case you haven't heard me say this before, I am not at our teacher anymore and I am definitely not a seminary teacher and I am not here to provide hush kapha.

But what I will say is this Just like we talked about his stylist in your relationship that I could be more loving and more enthusiastic and it might not get him back to show.

24:02

It's the same thing here, he can work so hard, just to Diamond at home.

Or he could fly through three storm.

And I don't really know how that's being calculated.

24:20

Right.

I don't know because if for this guy that's natural and it would actually be harder for him to go out to work and for my husband just staying connected just talking to a sham.

Once during the day just noticing the positive maybe that is like so much harder for him.

I don't know.

And so what we want to remember is that this is all being accountable.

24:39

This is the way I understand it and disregard it if you want because this isn't meant to be his Godfather.

But The accounting is a spiritual accounting and as human beings we try to make everything very black and white very cut and dry very like this is what success looks like in.

24:54

This is what failure looks like and because we're human beings and we don't really understand this this spiritual accounting of this So we become very superficial, it's very superficial what we think looks like success and what we think looks like failure.

And so I think just reminding ourselves that my job is always to stay in my zone.

25:13

My job is always to show up as the wife that I want to be at and as much as I want to value.

And I think this is what the teachers are trying to say.

When she says like this, you know, his learning is important.

It's important for both of you because if we don't value it, if I don't value him to have any right on value, him learning or whatever the thing is that for you.

25:32

Fills in that category.

If I don't value it, then I'm not going to give.

I'm not going to be encouraging.

I'm going to be like why do you have to go now, I could use some help, right?

I need to talk to you, whatever it is that you value.

You're going to be excited and enthusiastic when your husband's providing those things for you.

25:50

So it's important for the teachers to explain that this benefits.

You he's not out there taking care of himself and you have nothing to do with it, right?

But when we switch it into this, Like, well, now I need to really manipulate my husband to make sure that he's doing what my Seminary teacher said, he needs to do for me to get what I want to get.

26:10

That's when we become just very black and white in our thinking that's when we kind of lose all those other things that you really do know.

I know everyone listening to this that's it all connected.

To this concept really does know that there's a concept of like different people have different challenges, different levels of what we're struggling with, what we're not.

26:27

And we can't possibly know What the accounting is for those different struggles.

We can't possibly know how much reward one person's going for this thing and the other person is getting for the exact same thing but that it's different and it's tailored and it's Unique.

So, definitely keep those messages in terms of you understanding, what are your values when I want to send my husband points?

26:52

I want to make sure I'm being clear that those points reflect my values.

Like, let's say I really want my husband to succeed at his job, but I get really excited every time he stays home late and has coffee with me in the morning.

So I'm not really communicating my values, right?

27:07

So, if I want my husband to learn, but what I'm communicating is that when he stays home to help me take care of the baby, then that's really what I'm grateful for.

So, I need to know that.

That's what's happening, is it okay to be human?

Yes.

Like do you have to always 100% of the time?

27:23

Only push yourself?

No, because that would be going.

Back in the black and white thinking but sometimes we do need that refresher of what are the things that I want to be, the most enthusiastic about?

What are the things that I do support because that's what's authentic to me.

Not just what I need in the moment, right?

27:40

Okay.

I feel like now after this episode I'm going to have to do another episode of why.

It's so sometimes it's okay to ask, your husband is staying home.

But for now hopefully you are understanding that what I'm trying to communicate isn't that there's never room for an exception but that we just want to be paying attention to where are we throwing all our points?

27:59

And that again, we're not doing it with the goal of getting him to do something or getting him to be something because that's how we want to show up in the relationship.

Okay, my friends, if you have any further follow-ups on this episode, because I know there were a lot of different people asking me questions.

28:14

I didn't necessarily cover every specific situation, please feel free to email me, Kayla@kaylalevin.com, I'll either collect the q&a's and do a follow-up podcast.

If there's a lot of you or I'll just respond to you personally or maybe a combination, both, look forward to being back here on the podcast with you again next week.

28:33

You out.

Bye-bye.